To the abusive claim that Men’s Rights Activists don’t do anything but complain on the internet

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One of the more common abusive, bullying tactics of feminists is to claim that MRAs only complain on the internet and don’t actually do things to help people.

This is an abusive lie on multiple axes, and looks like an attempt to change the subject from feminist lies about rape, feminist lies about sexual assault, feminist lies about child abuse, feminist lies about fathers, and feminist abusiveness toward people in general.

In a way, this “you don’t do anything but complain” bullying tactic is a good sign: they’re figuring out that they have no good answers to most criticisms, and that their ideology is and always has been a minority ideology. So they feel the need to change the subject they strike a pose of “look, at least we’re doing something! You do nothing!”

Never mind how much of what feminists do is hateful and destructive.

The problem with this “I demand you show to my satisfaction that you do things” is multifold. It ignores everything we’ve done to get innocent men out of jail, to get government officials fired, the counseling and support we give to individual men, the articles we publish to help educate the public, the money we’ve raised to fund people’s legal defenses (Ben Radford is one famous example but there are many others), the petitions, the lobbyists we’ve worked with, the male birth control researchers we’ve worked with, the domestic violence and rape researchers we’ve worked with, the men’s shelter groups we’ve worked with, and more.

But let’s be clear about something else: The Honeybadger Brigade, the Anti-Misandry Forums, A Voice for Men, and most of the rest of the Men’s Human Rights Movement as a whole operate on a budget smaller than one feminist-run Domestic Violence Shelter organization. Indeed, there is a Women’s Shelter group, run entirely by feminists, not far from me that has nearly a $4 million budget just for its one county in one medium-sized state in the US. Not one Men’s Rights group has that kind of money, but feminists operate multiple enterprises with that kind of budget or bigger, including employing full time staff with generally excellent benefits. We by comparison still have to have day jobs and do this stuff in our spare time, with maybe one or two people total who manage to survive–on very meager earnings–through both their internet and in-peson advocacy.

So let’s be clear what this demand by feminists that we somehow prove we do things to help men with a list that feminists approve of: It’s an effort to change the subject. They have no actual interest in helping anyone but themselves, which is very obvious by their words and their deeds, and they actively work to stop and censor anyone who is working to address these issues from a non-feminist perspective.

The “show us what you do” thing is also breathtakingly arrogant: you, who do nothing to help men and boys’ issues, now demand that I do activism your way even though you actively work to thwart my activism and actively advocate harmful policies and repeat debunked lies about boys and men and debunked lies about the people I work with.

You, who spew lies about what I do, demand that I report to your satisfaction how I do my activism? Fuck you. And I won’t even dignify your claim that I do nothing but complain with a fuck you.

So seriously, to your “you don’t do anything!” bullshit? Pull the other one.

But let’s pretend for a minute that you are 100% right, that I do nothing, that the Men’s Rights Movement does nothing but complain.

Are our complaints wrong? If they aren’t, why aren’t you joining us and helping to do something about it? Why are you talking about us, when the subject was human rights violations? Are we not allowed to bring up human and civil rights issues if we don’t do activism your way, dancing to your tune?

We identify real abuses, real lies, real people who are hurt. And you’re changing the subject to us and what you perceive as our flaws. What does that say about you as a person?

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Dean Esmay

A strange sort of pseudo-celebrity. Also a tasty floor wax!

<span class="dsq-postid" data-dsqidentifier="152604 http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/?p=152604">58 comments</span>

  • they do all stuff they claim are against just because they can do it and they know there wouldn’t be consciences, they’re been raised to think that

    • Islam controls women. That’s why their numbers are growing — their women don’t fritter away their reproductive years getting tired of one “career” after another and screaming about being “oppressed”.

      • i’m an ex muslim, islam made a balance, treat men like unemotional animals and sexual predators, that why man are not allowed to touch or see a woman’s body that she’s not a family or be with her in a room, and never get custody NEVER, if the wife died than women in family take them.

        and treat woman like she’s a manipulative walking sex bomb that must cover herself and have not the right to divorce without giving a real reason to the imam to do so, only one or two countries applies this today.
        it may seem weird, but it work, cheating is not an option if this things were applied, but things changed and few countries allow sex segregation in schools.
        i think the main reason why white women dont want children or have children than rip the husband ass with divorce as girls told me is the things they hear in gender studies and feminist media.

        • Likely so. They take propaganda classes regularly. It proves women are emotional and not generally as smart as men.

      • one important thing, they know they have options, they’re exposed to white knighting everywhere, social media, school, streets, work, rich businessman …… (same thing the majority of muslim countries)
        dont let afghan and saudi stories make think its the same in the other countries

  • Sitting and typing. If that were true why would feminists complain? I mean aside from the fact that women constantly complain about everything.

      • Of course. It’s a typical female behavior like crying for no reason or obsessing over clothes, shoes, and makeup. the problem is, in positions of power complaints carry weight. Unnecessary weight in their case but weight.

      • Duh! Of course! Nothing men do is ever good enough.
        Especially the last 50 years or so when women have been brainwashed by feminism into believing that they’re emotionally, intellectually and morally superior to men – if it isn’t done the way they like it, then it isn’t the ‘correct’ way and therefore they have every ‘right’ to complain, nag, bitch, moan, whine…..

    • I don’t really mind if women complain, everyone is free to express their opinion on life’s problems. What I don’t like is when feminists turn complaints into hate and dogma.

      • There’s a thin line between complaining about “life’s problems” and being an obnoxious pest or a bully. I get sick of hearing women complain, especially when they won’t do anything about whatever they’re complaining about.

        • I don’t know about women but I do know that feminism intends to do something about womens conplaints, –as long as it brings in money to feminist organizations!

  • “you don’t do anything”

    from the complain your way to the top crowd.

    whats the matter, maintaining a house of cards built out of lies and threats turning into work.

    well if you call, being a sexist hateful bigot, doing something, I guess I dont.

    • Yeh, actually. They’re having to work harder to get people to believe their bullshit and since they attained full equality decades ago it’s a struggle for the poor dears to find issues they can legitimately complain about – so they turn non-issues into “institutionalised misogyny’

      • Yeah, and it’s like there’s a gradient correlation, where the more bullshit the narrative is, the more it costs to keep it in place.

  • If you want to see some real super fancy mental gymnastics. The next time one of them tells you that you don’t do anything but complain on the internet. Tell them that you try to do things but you keep being oppressed by them. Then watch the gyrations begin.

  • I turn this one right around on them with an offensive grilling. I state feminists claim to deal with men’s issues, so I demand specifically which issues those are and what are the exact feminist solutions? When they don’t have any answers I come right back with, that’s why the first thing MRA’s had to do was to take their own issues back from feminists and find their own solutions.
    One of those solutions is to create men’s shelters to deal with abusive childhood issues.
    Then I trigger warn that I will be ripping into them with all the terse, mean-spirited vindictiveness my feminine side can muster, about how feminists vehemently oppose such shelters for men. Then I get “in your face” how feminists are in denial about maternal child abuse to begin with, which makes them, and every other feminist a child abuse apologist.
    And they’ll deny that. Then you tell them the story of how feminists treated Erin Pizzey…

  • I’m sure most men affected by the blight on their rights would be delighted to do more and sacrifice more, but living in a feminist police-state in which you can be jailed, even murdered, for nothing does rather put most men off bona fide activism.

    • It’s especially frustrating to see feminists in real life committing real crimes — blocking doors, pulling fire alarms, battery, sexual assault, theft, vandalism, perjury, and mostly never get in any kind of trouble.

      I heard it said, I don’t know if it’s fact, that the Argentina police were asked why they didn’t arrest the women who were sexually assaulting the Catholic congregation, they said, “We can’t. What do you want us to do? They’re women.”

      Like it was matter-of-fact. They’re women. They can’t be arrested. They are above the laws governing Argentina.

      • And indeed many countries. I’ve long been at the point of realisation that women can commit a vast range of crimes with almost total impunity and that this is nothing new. As depressing as it is, I don’t think there’s any hope at all for the MRM until enough societies in the developed West fall into utter socioeconomic collapse, at which point a partial return to “traditionalism” will occur, only for the cycle to begin again.

  • Yes you’re right. They sit on their blogs and complain and accuse men of doing the same thing. They say do something about your problems you man babies and then laugh at videos of feminists shutting g down people doing something about their problems. Diana boston (the pos that she is) is a perfect example. She has a picture of a fire alarm with the words never forget on her blog (or at least she did). She actively promotes shutting down people organizing to solve their problems. I’ve also seen her accuse mras of not doing anything but complain. Hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance or both? I’ll prob just Chalk it up to mental illness I guess. Lastly I agree with another one your sentiments: Fuck you feminists.

  • I don’t do anything but complain on the Internet… but so what? Is it somehow better if you stand around in a group carrying signs and chanting slogans? It’s the same thing, only with a smaller, more localized audience, and dependent on mass media to deliver your message for you. Bypass the middle man, I say, and type out your grievance on the Internet. Same thing, only better.

    What else is there? Are we going to start firebombing clinics and universities or something?

    • In the 21st Century, rabble-rousing is done on the internet. But since these people are almost always privileged elitists, they have no idea what real grassroots activism looks like.

  • They say we don’t do anything…

    Except build their roads and bridges, invent their computers, fix their cars, create their Internet, generate their electricity, put food on their table and a roof overhead, keep them from being eaten by bears and saber-toothed tigers, haul away their garbage, fix their pipes, discover their stars and split their atoms, mow their lawn, write their music and poetry, collect their moon rocks, fight their wars, run their trains, fly their planes, make their movies, design their clothes, set their bones and cure their ills, police their streets, put out their fires, rush to their emergencies, man their factories, run their companies, pass their laws, sweep their streets, build their houses, catch their mice snakes and lizards, cook their food, design their iphones, dig their ditches, explore their oceans, build their rockets, install their cable, compute their mathematics, discern their physics–

    You know, now that I think about it,

    WHAT THE FUCK DO *THEY* DO ???

    • not all men are mra’s
      not all women are feminists
      your statement implies that when men build bridges its always a mra, its not.
      in fact its often a blue pill man who gives his whole pay cheque to his wife and is driven by a need to provide for “his” family that builds those bridges and the roads ect ect ect.

      the topic is feminist complaints about mra’s not women complaining about men.

      • So whats your point? Men build civilization, and FEMINISTS sponge off it.

        Men are busy with the details of running things. That’s why they don’t have much free time to go around spouting slogans and carrying placards.

        • The point is it’s not really relevant here, but appears to be so.
          This is the comments section of an article talking about the feminist complaint that we MRAs don’t do anything to help men but argue on the internet.

          It has nothing to do with what we men do, which is what your comment seems to address primarily.

          • My comment points out that *MEN*, who mainly comprise *MRA*’s are BUSY with the running of civilization and don’t have the luxury of free time to spend on activism like the WOMEN did when they started out. They had large blocks of unstructured time with which to reach out to each other, sit around and discuss their issues, and organize protests and other activism measures. MEN have to WORK for a living.

          • Yes, men mainly comprise MRAs, and wealthy white men also mainly comprise the most powerful in the world. That’s called a fallacy of composition. That’s why you’re getting called out. You’re making the same mistake feminists rely on when accusing all men of being patriarchal shitlords.

          • You might want to step back and take a breather. You seem to be going pretty far out of your way to twist my comment into something it wasn’t.

  • This line came up about 1 year ago around our conference, finally someone gave a really good reply. Good point, thanks Dean, it was about time.

    • When Paul Elam said we had to eat babies. I understood the rape quota requirement, I really do even if it’s tough. And I like to eat a baby as much as the next MRA. But I think on principle it’s wrong to require baby-eating, it goes too much against the MGTOW spirit.

      • i am going to put on my political speak decoder ring

        you under stoood and extreme tact would be necessary, and you like to stir shit just as much as the guy but some thing went tooo far, and violated a cherished principle. pm me on reddit @ /u/wazzup987 if you need to talk. i have a feeling new mrm website will be needed in the future if i got my new speak to old speak translator working

  • Ive seen myself that some of the most loudest and effective MRA’s, MHRA’s, MRM…..are the Honey Badgers. “Judgy Bitch” has called mare than a few Eunuch males onto the carpet!!

  • I imagine that the budget for the entire mrm is less than the wages of 2 feminist in high non profit positions . That would be about 250k.

  • Feminism is an upper class movement, white middle-class-and-above of women with disposable income wishing to preserve and extend their privileges. Of course they have money to invest in it.

By Dean Esmay

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