Here’s a story out of Manatee County, Florida. Notice that it was picked up by a British paper. (I do know it’s a trashy British paper; that doesn’t change any of the facts reported.)
“A 24-year-old woman was arrested yesterday for attacking her boyfriend after he climaxed and she did not, a police report alleges.
Raquel Gonzalez lives in Bradenton, Florida with her boyfriend, Esric Davis, 30. Apparently, the two were engaged in intercourse.
When he finished and she did not, Gonzalez allegedly started punching and scratching him around the nose and eyes.”
Because of course it’s the man’s fault if a woman can’t climax with a man. Or something.
Now here’s something else going on:
“The angry lover told officers at the scene that Davis was not the only one with scratches, telling them that Davis had nicked her in a desperate attempt to restrain her.”
Why would she say this, what made her think that would be worth saying, what did she hope to get?
This looks like she thinks that by claiming some kind of injury she will get victimhood points and that will exonerate her or somehow mitigate her offense. Yeah, what a total brute that guy, trying to defend himself.
This looks like an attempt at damseling, an aspect of toxic femininity that is generally available only to white women. See also “white woman’s tears”. Ah, but no. It didn’t work:
“She was arrested yesterday afternoon and charged with felony domestic battery, and remains in the Manatee County jail.
Her bail has not yet been set.”
So there’s the racial disparity right there. Actual like actually going to jail when you beat a man up accountability is not a feature of White Female Privilege.
- The Woman Card - May 2, 2016
- Frat boy bachelorettes and the invasion of gay bars - April 15, 2016
- “Not my kid….” - February 22, 2016
by 
“manatee gal ain’t you comin’ out tonight
comin’ out tonight
comin’ out tonight
manatee gal ain’t you comin’ out tonight
To dance by the light of the moon.”
Sorry, my beloveds, the fullish moon and the coldish viccunt have put me in touch with my musical side – for which, of course, I reject all responsibility, because, Patriarchy.
And indeed, because Patriarchy, when a male fails of take overt and obsequious responsibility for the orgasmic failure of a female, it is ok for her to scratch, beat, and inevitably, murder the living shit out of him (penis), and then, because female orgasmic failure is ALWAYS the fault of some supposedly incompetent man, somewhere, she can reclaim her blameless victim status because, of course, the dude bleeding out his feelings and insight was asking for it.
By failing. At something that was her responsibility – her orgasm.
How about, we all think about ending playtime?
And maybe, together, we grow up??
And take responsibilitiy for our own fucked up behavior?
No?
Awesome, and whenever the barbie dolls become too boring to tolerate, you feminist toddlers, and the universe is destroyed, can we then talk?
No?
Awesome.
Examples like this highlight why I distrust sex positive feminists. They not only judge (morally) a sexual encounter by the fact if it was consensual or not, but include also viewpoints like reciprocity and mutual satisfaction. If somebody is not a good lay, how about just not having sex with them, instead of berating them and applying feminist criticism of oppression to their perceived shortcomings?
This makes me think of a memory from high school. I was friends with a boy and a girl. The boy made a bet with another friend that he could kiss the girl at a party. So he did and he won their bet but the girl found out. She responded by kissing him again and this time biting his tongue so hard that he couldn’t speak properly for a week.
Clearly the guys who made that bet were in the wrong too, so it’s a different situation to the incident in this thread. Nevertheless violence shouldn’t be seen as acceptable in either situation.
This is not the only incident of its kind that I remember from high school. Rarely were these girls held to account for their actions. But I’m beginning to think that this must be very frustrating and detrimental for women as well as men.
Not only do violent women sometimes hit other women, it goes deeper than that, as you all know. There are times when I wish I could lash out at people whenever I get upset. But on balance, I know I developed and grew as a person by being held to account for my actions.
“She responded by kissing him again and this time biting his tongue so hard that he couldn’t speak properly for a week.”
The reason people like this don’t learn to play nice is because society encourages it by rewarding them with a lack of jail time. In the future we should not reward them, but send them to jail. That will send the message that what they are doing is wrong instead of right.
Wow, they actually arrested her though? It’s a pity that it might be due to racism, but it’s still progress.
The hypocrisy in those last 2 links from white women feminists is just hilarious.
Let us assume we have a male MRA saying the following in a comment thread about a rape case:
I just see one jerk and this is not the flirtatious woman, it is the MRA calling her a jerk. At least he isn’t violent, but still he clearly shows entitlement.
Well I’m not very susprised. White women can get away with a lot. Ths can stem from being verbally abusive all the way to physical assault. They are rarely punished and when they are it’s usually a mere slap on the wrist. In fact I think it’s almost a completely unique privilege similar to a racial trait that you’d expect from a ‘fantasy’ RPG. I’ve never seen any other group have access to it, not even white men.
As a black man you may find yourself being a little more tense when around a white woman. For instance getting in an elevator with one is always uncomfortable, it’s one of those debates whether she’s more afraid of you or you’re more of her – however given the armies she can have at her beck and call should she feel threatened or merely offended enough (ask Emmett Till or Anthony Walker). In fact the other day a friend of mine was arrested and spent a night in jail simply because a white womans best description of being sexually assaulted by what she describes as a “dark skinned man” was a “dark skinned man”. This is not an isolated incident.
I’m not so sure of the dynamics between white men and white women but black men certainly don’t see white women as a ‘minority’, they come across as what I can only describe as a ‘faux-minority’.
Well, Jupp:
As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force him to drink…
Ogun:
Very good comment. Not much else to say.
@Orgun and Ginkyo: Those links to the feminist articles about “white women’s tears” bother me alot. They have a point, privilege is intersectional and race and class also affect gendered privilege, but it’s still female privilege, not white-female privilege. As women they still have more access to society’s protection than a man of their equivalent social niche.
It seems to me that they’re absolving themselves of having to call out their own privilege by saying “that’s something that applies to white girls” when there are still issues that also apply to them.
All that said, they are moving in the right direction by recognising that at least *some* women are privileged in terms of their gender. That’s pretty unusual within feminism.
This incident is probably also relevant: http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/06/slutwalk-slurs-and-why-feminism-still-has-race-issues/
It seems like once some women identify as feminist, they really identify as “oppressed” and see themselves as being equal members of a group consisting of everyone except straight white men, when really they don’t have it nearly as bad as, say, a black guy living in the US. This also explains the histrionics that result when MRAs try to point out female privilege and male oppression. After all: if men can be oppressed in terms of their gender and women can be privileged, then they might actually have to acknowledge their own role and complicity within the “patriarchy.”
Not to mention that they might not take first place in the oppression olympics. The horror!
I agree with you to a certain extent, however- if there was no such thing as “white female privilege” then race, gender and class wouldn’t actually be “intersectional” and it damn sure wouldn’t be able to result in unique forms of ‘oppression’ or ‘privilege’. It is true that black women can also have access to a proxy.
A ‘Proxy’ being a man whom is used to inflict violence on a woman’s behalf; this is a very under-studied part of male/female dynamics. Yet you can see it almost everywhere.
For clarity: A woman whom is the parent of a physically superior male may use her husband or significant other in order to inflict violence upon her child should she be incapable of doing so herself. She may use her brother, uncle, father, friend or even the state.
“I’m telling your father when he gets home” is one way many of my friends mothers made the threat of violence because in the relationship the father was used for that purpose, not only was he given consent to inflict violence upon his children he was often pigeonholed into doing so by questioning his ability to parent or “be a man”. I saw too many damn cases of this to bother going on and on about it but you should surely understand the gist.
It seems to me that white women (specifically feminist ones) have been making an active campaign not just for “liberation” (whatever the fuck that is today) but to disassociate themselves from their male counterparts. An effort in futility when every other minority doesn’t seem to buy it as easily…
Female privilege is a known fact amongst a lot of women it’s just as my girlfriend pointed out to me: “something that would not be conducive for women to get what they want”. The most precious commodity is the notion of the opressed and the oppressor. Faux-minority status has been by far the greatest achievement acquired so far. This may be a reason that feminism requires opression olympics to function at all.
My impression of some concepts of intersectionality/kyriarchy is that they are “linear” in some sense: you get +X “points” for being white, -Y “points” for being female, and so forth. At the end you add them up and you have your privilege score. Under this model, there is no white female privilege independent of white privilege + female privilege (or disprivilege as adherents of this model believe). I suppose this is better than the “gender is everything” model in that it takes more than one dimension of identity into account, but it’s still seriously deficient in my book. First, I don’t believe that privilege can be measured solely along a single dimension. Second, I don’t believe that privilege is “linear” in this sense–in other words, I don’t think the *relative* experience of white women compared to white men is the same as the relative experience of black women compared to black men, Asian women compared to Asian men, and so forth (insofar as these aggregate comparisons are meaningful, anyways). Finally, there’s still the ever-present danger of using statements about groups to deny the validity of individual experiences.
Ogun,
I’m glad you are saying these things. I know that any discrimination I face as a man is multiplied when it is faced by a black man.
I also agree that its annoying when people start to throw on more and more modifiers to try and distance themselves from their privilege, e.g. white women: “Men have all the power, patriarchy, etc.”, non-white women: “white women’s tears”, a white guy in a wheelchair: “able-bodied white guys”, etc. etc.
@JMCI,
thank you for saying what I wanted to say in a much clearer manner. I agree completely that these things are not linear. To continue with the math vocab, there are some significant second order corrections that need to be taken into account.
Welcome, Ogun – that is a very rich comment, likely to be lifted into a post because of the points you touch on.
Welcome, JMCI,
“At the end you add them up and you have your privilege score.”
This is one weakness I am beginning to see in the privilege narrative is that it considers privilege to be an attribute of individuals. This is natural in a culture that has individualism as a core value, but it is not very explanatory in this instnnce.
Privielge is situational. It is a social construct after all. If I go to China, I am still white, but I definitely have no white privilege. As the saying goes “foreigners have no face”- can’t really screw up socially, but can never belong in any real level. Of course I don’t get treated with the same blatant contempt Africans get, but the status of Africans is hardly a benchmark in China.
“Second, I don’t believe that privilege is “linear” in this sense–in other words, I don’t think the *relative* experience of white women compared to white men is the same as the relative experience of black women compared to black men, Asian women compared to Asian men, and so forth (insofar as these aggregate comparisons are meaningful, anyways). ”
Bless the man. Very important point. without this degree of detail the ananlysis is just reductionist to the poiont of uselessness. The simplicity of it is appealing but deceptive.
And your last point – well, yeah, that is the most usual criticism of the way “privilege” is used in these discussions.
Peter,
“They have a point, privilege is intersectional and race and class also affect gendered privilege, but it’s still female privilege, not white-female privilege.”
As I recall you’re not American. In America it’s imposssible to separate white female privilege from female privilege simply because black women aren’t considered fully female, as in “Ain’t I a woman?” as Sojourner Truth famously and pointdly asked. She didn’t get an answer because the answer was obvious.
That’s just an aspect of American racism. Black men are considered hyper-masculine, and demonized as such, all the time they are being treated like no-status boys, and black women are considered sub-feminine. This goes to beauty standards and everything else.
Which is why:
“Wow, they actually arrested her though? It’s a pity that it might be due to racism, but it’s still progress.”
… is not progress at all. Look at our incarceration stats – black women and white men have nearly identical incarceration rates, far above white women and well below black men. White authorities have never had much compunction about arresting and jailing black women. That would have been a radical departure in fact.
Ogun,
“I’m not so sure of the dynamics between white men and white women but black men certainly don’t see white women as a ‘minority’, they come across as what I can only describe as a ‘faux-minority’.”
No shit. it’s called appropriation. It’s the same scam they have pulled on gay men. It is driven by the need to always be seen as the ultimate victim – this is what Peter is referring to – for the advantges that confers, the claims that entitles you to make on other people, as you mention here:
“The most precious commodity is the notion of the opressed and the oppressor.”
This is the justice narrative. it too is a social construct. You don’t see victims touting thier victimhood in cultures that don’t have a concet of cosmic justice and a derived sense of the victim’s inherent moral superiority.
“Faux-minority status has been by far the greatest achievement acquired so far.”
It was no achievement at all. It was just damseing in a progressive mask, and white women had damseling in thier arsenal all along. It’s part of the chivalry that white feminists denounce and insist on benefiting from. They didn’t have to do anything to remain in that status.
“As a black man you may find yourself being a little more tense when around a white woman. For instance getting in an elevator with one is always uncomfortable, it’s one of those debates whether she’s more afraid of you or you’re more of her…”
Emmett Till. Exactly. I don’t know how old you are, but that kind of thing was a standard plot device in novels when i was growing up. You of course didn’t learn about it out of novels; I’m just saying how engrained that is in society and how far back it goes.
this link will never get old….
http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/update/
SWAB, that link should be archived. It just keeps on giving.
I think white feminism’s problem in life is its cliquishness and tribalism – the emphasis on loyalty requires a lot of exclusion, both in the way these people hereticate each other and even more in the way it seems ot blind them to any snese that there is a world beyond their little world of people who matter, the ones they let in, people exactly like them.
This cliquishness manifests in a number of ways. One is the heretication and factionalism I mention above. Another is the emphasis on in-group jargon you see in any feminist space. But the main one is this blindness to anyone else’s issues, most revealingly shown in their arrogant assumption of championship for all the down-trodden of the world, like one big society dame charity in college girl drag.
This by the way why feminism is not the solution to men’s problems. Feminism as an ideology may or may not be capable of it, but that’s moot, since female feminists have mostly shown themsleves to be incapable of it.
The exceptions are the ones who come over the Reddit MensRights and call themselves MRAs, or people like Daisy, who have a moral conscience and enough personal experience with this factionalism to be wise to the issues.
“That’s just an aspect of American racism. Black men are considered hyper-masculine, and demonized as such, all the time they are being treated like no-status boys, and black women are considered sub-feminine. This goes to beauty standards and everything else.”
And Asian-American are the mirror:
Asian men are considered sub-masculine, and treated like eunuchs, even by Asian women. Asian women are considered desirable and hyper-feminine, moreso than caucasian women.
Hi, JMCI. I think of it as more like a rigged game of bingo, called “wishful thinking.”
Schala, that’s the other part of the equation.
Ginko: “If I go to China, I am still white, but I definitely have no white privilege.”
Wow, seriously? I’ve heard accounts of white people being practically worshiped in China.
“Wow, seriously? I’ve heard accounts of white people being practically worshiped in China.”
Not worshipped – adored as a specimen maybe, but still very much kept outside. If you go as a “foreign expert” you are going to be treated very well, but that has nothing to do with some inherent equality you share in. If you go to teach, especially English, you are going to be adored, but Chinese students idolize their teachers and always have. It’s a cultural expectation. But the minute you step out of role you find out what your exact position is with very little delay.
If a white person had white privilege in China, he would enjoy a societally conferred superiority over Chinese themsleves. Obviously that doesn’t not happen.
@Orgun: Sorry, obviously I was unclear. I wasn’t trying to imply that black women have equal access to female privilege, the above story is proof of that. My point was that black women talking about white women’s tears are actually on the ball: It’s definitely a thing. What I’m a little less sure about is the degree to which they’re willing to recognise their own female privilege, even if it’s less than what they’d have if they were white.
@JMCI: Big time.
@Ginkyo: Yep, I’m not from the US, and Ireland is pretty racially homogenous, but from what I’ve seen I’d agree that black women are portrayed as being less than women because of their colour, also the stuff about black men being hypermasculinised (would it be more accurate to say that their male-oppression is magnified while their male-privilege isn’t anything like that of a white man’s?).
Like I said to Orgun, I must have put that badly. I was trying to say that while white women definitely have a unique advantage, in terms of both their whiteness and femininity, black women still have advantages over black men and the two blogs entries in question seemed to be ignoring that.
@Forweg: “Wow, seriously? I’ve heard accounts of white people being practically worshiped in China.”
There’s plenty of Japanophiles who love Japanese people here too. It’s not quite the same as having a privilege.
Well from personal experience: Black women are no closer to the mirror of self-reflection than their white counterparts. Perusing their blogs, websites, discussions, forums, and even face to face – they are miles away from confronting their own demons. Their problems are placed squarely at the feet of white men, followed by black men followed by white women and then some abstract evil similar to Morgoth or the Devil or something… However personal accountability is something you will be lucky to see.
Black women have certain advantages over black men. Even racism (the thing they both could face) hits them with vastly different consequences. Also any gains feminists make trickle down to black women or hit them immediately but for the most part actively F*** black men over.
For example: a friend of mine had an odd situation at his college because a bunch of feminists had demanded extra security on campus so ‘women’ would feel safer. With the added security came the problem of the black male students being stopped and searched sometimes 3 times a day. It wasn’t long until several got arrested or kicked off campus for refusing to show I.D. due to what they felt were unjustified stop and searches. A lot of the gains made by feminists tend to result in piss poor variables for other males. Of course the white women didn’t give two shits and the black women couldn’t do much even if they wanted to, but they were now ‘safer’.
Ogun,
“Well from personal experience: Black women are no closer to the mirror of self-reflection than their white counterparts. Perusing their blogs, websites, discussions, forums, and even face to face – they are miles away from confronting their own demons.”
You don’t say….
http://crunkfeministcollective.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/asking-for-sex-what-do-you-do-when-the-guy-says-no/
http://crunkfeministcollective.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/asking-for-sex-revisited/
http://crunkfeministcollective.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/dating-while-feminist-anatomy-of-an-intellectual-affair/
….. and some thoughts on it from Ozy Frantz
http://goodmenproject.com/noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz/uh-crunk-feminist-collective-we-need-to-have-a-chat/
This bit deserves special attention:
◦Dudes be on bullshit when it comes to acknowledging the operations of (Black) male privilege.
(Historically that privilege was to be the primary target of suspicion about designs on white women, unlike black women, and becoem the primary targets of state terrorism; to be passed over for employment when black women could find work, however unsatisfactory; to have an incarceration rate far in excess of either white men or black women….)
◦Consent was never an issue in this interaction. It became a straw man in this blog conversation, used in a reactionary way by men who didn’t want to acknowledge another manifestation of male privilege, namely the fact that men do play power games with sex.
(It became a consideration when the forst blog post ran right over it. She created the issue. Or is consent now a “strawman”? That will be very useful….)
◦Consent and desire are not competing goals; the former, freely expressed, is a prerequisite for the free, healthy and legal expression of the latter.
(Then you maight have made that a little clearer in the initial offensive post, ebcause in the context of this culture, where mejn’s consent is of no consequence and is presumed ot be given without even asking, it is far form inherently clear.)
◦Black female desire is not (inherently) predatory. But casting our desire as predatory and threatening allows others to police us into silence. Then it becomes easy to blame Black women not only for having needs in the first place but also for the failure to have them met.
(So that means black women, according to this writer, experience the real slut-shaming that all men experience form the day they can walk. Welcome to equality. Sorry if that’s notthe sympathy you were fishing for.)
◦A Black man who claims to want a relationship is inherently a more sympathetic character than a Black woman who claims to want sex, even among feminists who claim to be pro-sex.
(And this never applies to women? The woman who simply wnats a relationship is ALWAYS presented as the pure vessel who is not consumed by crude animal lust like all those filthy men.)
◦Black men still feel like their needs are primary and will take up all the space (and air) in the room to protect their primacy in racial dialogue.
(Yet this is exactly what feminism teaches women to do. But that’s different because it’s righteous. They are entitled to that, where menof course, by definintion, are not.)
◦They do this without regard to how their choices affect Black women.
(Because how anyone’s choices affect some other group is always the prime moral criterion.)
◦Black men didn’t create the structures that disadvantage Black women in romance and sex, but the same education and career attainments that open doors for Black men around sex and partnership, frequently foreclose options for Black women.
(Because women never, ever do the same to men. Oh, wait, when they do it’s justified, so that’s totes different.)
◦These are all examples of Black male privilege.
(Then apparently it doesn’t exist.)
◦No one really believes Black women when we testify about our experiences.
(That is an expression of entitlement. Testimony has no right to be believed. It is disrepsectful to demand that. testimony can either expose itself to scrutiny, analysis and challenge, or it can expect to be dismissed as demonstrated.)
All three essays are drenched in a sense of entitlement and it proceeds frorm something you mentioned earlier, the “righteous victim” construct. Just insist that you are oppressed and you become the righteous victim, and not only can you do no wrong, but you are owed, you are owed…..
That lady just couldn’t open her eyes, could she? Wow.
I mean, the first blogpost was bad enough, but then she doubles and triples the bet. Amazing that she couldn’t see that blaming his rejection of her on some kind of ulterior motive puts her squarely in the “I’m entitled to your penis” category.
Also, why not date a white guy? But that’s neither here nor there.
“Also, why not date a white guy?”
She’s already in enough pain?
I honestly didn’t have the energy to read past the first couple of points. The privilege is strong in this one!
Also I don’t think she knows what a strawman is… I think she meant that consent was a red herring, which is still interesting.
That was quite depressing Gingko, but a damn necessary dissection of a flawed premise. Sexual entitlement is something a plethora of of black women have from my own experience. In fact I’d argue there are many cultural issues that black women need to deal with before they attempt police desire itself. Colourism, jealousy of lighter skinned, longer haired black women etc. etc. The list goes on.
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