There’s a fun video running around where a bunch of gay guys tell straight men they should be pushing for gay maraiuge to get gay men all settled down, or they’ll take all the girlfriends away because women prefer gay men generally anyway.
I laughed too when my partner showed me this, but he agreed the funnier video would have warned women about us taking their boyfriends away, or at least teaching them to expect a whole lot more in bed and in a relationship.
The video is not only aimed at straight men but is also aimed against straight men, so it’s misandist. A gay man who reallty thinks this way is sleeping with the enemy. And that would be just eeeewwwww….. /s
I posted this on the reddit thread where the video was posted. This is the video i would like to see:
“Be nice to him girlfriend; what are you going to do after he gets that first competent blowjob?”
“Hey girlfriend, get ready for when he finds out he’s as attractive, scratch that, more attractive than you, and that there are people who think he’s hot.”
“Hey girlfriend, what are you going to do when he starts expecting you to do half the work in bed? Will you even know what he’s talking about?”
“Hey girlfriend, what are you going to do when he asks why you never send flowers?”
“Hey girlfriend, what are you going to do when he finds out the vagina cartel can’t “cut him off”?
“Hey girlfriend, what’s you plan when you find out that you can’t manipulate him any more by insinuating he may be gay or not man enough?”
Queer Eye For the Straight Guy was just the beginning. You know why gay men are made welcome in the men’s movement in a way they have never really been in feminism? It’s called MGTOW – Men Going Their Own Way. And there is nothing more MGTOW than a gay man. It’s the power of the limp dick, and it can re-order the world.
- The Woman Card - May 2, 2016
- Frat boy bachelorettes and the invasion of gay bars - April 15, 2016
- “Not my kid….” - February 22, 2016
by 
I can’t watch the video until I get home, but your idea sounds funnier. I used to hang around with a small group of gay men, one of them had a crush on me. On a couple of occasions we went to gay bars and they would ask me to dance, grab my butt, and make advances towards me. Sometimes it made me uncomforatble. Usually I laughed it off. They were just trying to be funny. We were friends and I didn’t look at it any differently than the teasing and taunting my straight friends and I did. But there was this one time I was dancing with the guy who had the crush on me and he grabbed the back of my head and kissed me. At first I was shocked and tried to pull away. then I kind of went with it. It lasted for about 2-3 minutes. I didn’t know what to think at the time. None of the guys did either. I think everyone thought he had crossed the line, including me. But when I look back at it, it might have been the best kiss I ever had. It was certainly the most unexpected. After we all “got over it” I think I began teasing him more than he ever teased me. If only I were gay, “I coulda had a V-8!”
I’ll agree the original video was misandrist, although it was funny.
But rather than go gay, I’d just be celebate. I’ve done it before involuntarily.
A better video would be to point out the risks of marriage and ask this women: “why should he marry you?”
that video comes from a parallel universe that I can’t relate too….
man, if anyone ever gets in my face and asks about gay marriage-I’ll either laugh or yell depending on my mood and just say what about my right to not be cannon fodder for the corrupt government, when will Selective Service end? I get the idea that it’s mostly so their partners can get health insurance, yet here I am and I don’t even have health insurance, my asshole employer gets around that by paying me as a 1099, independent contractor….
I’ve been called a misogynist and a homophobe, but really, I feel like women’s right’s and gay’s rights have been put ahead of my basic human rights to not be obligated to die for others causes. (Yes, I know gay men also got drafted, but they could’ve gotten out if they came out.)
so why should I care about others rights when they don’t even fully acknowledge that I’m a human being-to them I’m a privileged, sub human, Nice Guy ™ piece of shit….
@SWAB, it sounds to me like you are being emotional right now and not thinking clearly. You’re heading down a slippery slope here. Don’t forget, emotions are special privileges only given to women; when I was in the Marine Corps I wasn’t even allowed to have emotions unless I was given a direct order to have them. I don’t know why you want me to sympathize for women and emotional men when society doesn’t even recognize my basic humanity as a warrior… /s
Look, gay men’s rights are men’s rights in every respect; no different from yours or mine. A lot of people have shitty jobs, being married doesn’t guarantee you will get health insurance. You’re not being rational here, you are just lashing out. You’ve heard “First they came…”, the famous quote by Martin Niemoller, right? Well gay men are men, too. And they’re minorities. By treating their cause as different from yours, you risk pigeonholing yourself as the ‘white male’ oppressor. That’s exactly what they want you to do.
SWAB, that is exactly the place you should start from.
The next step is you realize that a lot of what gays are fighting agaisnt is the shit you face too. Then you can begin to see a common cause, but not until you do the first step you are doing now. More than half of the shit you have dealt with comes out of female privielge and female immunity, and that is a function of vagina pedestalization – and being gay is all about telling the pussy she’s got nothing for you. After that, what dungone said makes more sense.
Oh, and the part about health insurance is true, but being married is not the golden jkey unless your spouse has it. Our healthcare situation in this cuntry is bullshit. I hope you helped the solution by voting the right way. You did, didn’t you?
Clarence,
“But rather than go gay, I’d just be celebate. I’ve done it before involuntarily.”
That cuts right to the chase. MGTOW is MGTOW. And it is a form of activism – the personal is political and all that kind of puritanism.
I couldn’t care either way where walking down the aisle is concerned. Working in the tax field I see many little, and some big, discriminations against gay couples. These I’d like to see fixed.
The only gay male I currently know outside victim circles is my cousin. He and I are firm allies and co-strategisers. Somebody needs to maintain sanity in our extended family.
I’ve never had any difficulties interacting with homosexual men. I’ve always been drawn to folk who are a little different to the norm anyway. I did spend a fair bit of time in the arts and theatre world during the seventies and eighties granting plenty of opportunity. Being quickly upfront and presenting as fairly alpha has prevented unwanted overtures I guess.
Lesbians are a different case. With the exception of militant seperatists(whom nobody can like because they hate everybody) I get on better with lesbians than anybody else. They are no threat to me, they know what it’s like to co-exist with a woman AND they know how aggressive women CAN be. Several of the businesses around my own are run by lesbians. I’ve become firm friends with all of them.
Heterosexual women or, at least, those more sexually aggressive than the norm, are THE danger in my world. The predator knows it’s prey, particularly when it’s kindred has previously softened it up.
Note also the video’s subtle anti-gay stereotype: by casting gay men as able (and willing!) to take girlfriends away from straight men, in reinforces the belief that gay men are rapacious ravenous sexual predators. It also implicitly denies the existence of actual homosexuality, since a gay man that has a girlfriend isn’t exactly gay-gay (i.e. Kinsey 6) now is he?
But yeah, I think that the idea that there’s some sort of “natural alliance” between gay men and women is… questionable, at best. For one, it buys into the idea that gay men are “honorary women” (which is false, stereotyping, and gynocentric). For two, whilst it is true that a certain kind of hetero-masculinity has been very frustrating for women and gay (and bi, and anything-other-than-vanilla-straight) men, it is also very frustrating for many heterosexual men. For three, not all anti-queer-male sentiment can be reduced to femmephobia and/or misogyny.
At first I was mildly annoyed by these videos because it appeared to target men as more likely to be homophobic than women, which is something I haven’t found to be true, but then I saw this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Be8LnuG3U
The whole time I was watching the video I kept thinking, wouldn’t the stereotypical straight man absolutely love this arrangement? Gay men would suffer all the marital bullshit while leaving straight men to only take care of the sex part.
And wouldn’t you have it, someone comes up with a video making that same point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSX0vGnjkws
This video is more truly subversive because it follows the all assumptions set by the first video, but shows why its conclusion is in fact wrong. Yet, the response received nearly as many dislikes as likes and the comment are full of sour grapes complaining and typical shaming language.
The straight guys won this one while at the same time implicitly supporting gay marriage.
“There’s a fun video running around where a bunch of gay guys tell straight men they should be pushing for gay maraiuge to get gay men all settled down, or they’ll take all the girlfriends away because women prefer gay men generally anyway.”
Great conspiracy theory: gay men are only men in order to pickup all women out there 🙂 (Great conspiracy theory, right?)
“I laughed too when my partner showed me this, but he agreed the funnier video would have warned women about us taking their boyfriends away, or at least teaching them to expect a whole lot more in bed and in a relationship.”
But, of course, gay men would prefer men to women, so they should tell women to support gay marriage!
For what it’s worth I linked to both the original CollegeHumor video and the “Straight Guy’s Response” video.
Yes, both deal in stereotypes but both are still funny, and even the “straight guys” video is less “politically correct”, they still ended up supporting gay marriage.
Heck, I think that’s how most males think about homosexuality anyway. Unless homosexuality is demonized by society or /especially RELIGION, most guys are live/let live when it comes to bisexuals and gays. I think most “natural” (without societal or religious sanction and encouragement which makes the problem worse) violence against gays is based on the stereotypical “weak” /feminine type. Weakness has often been punished in males.
And yes in some cultures weakness is often associated with traits that are considered “feminine”, but the feminists insistance that this is based on misogyny and not fear/hatred of weakness is problematic, to say the least.
And, hey, Paul:
I want to marry those girls!! I’d let em have another girl on the side, and I wouldn’t even ask to be involved, long as they could handle my “icky” man needs now and again, lol.
Clarence, I think you are 100% right about most traight men’s attitudes towards gays in genral. It is effete behvior that they despise, not homosexuality per se. And I think it’s quite prfoper to depsise weakness, whether it is tolerated in women but still despised or just straight up penalized in men.
“But, of course, gay men would prefer men to women, so they should tell women to support gay marriage!”
That’s my point, jose. Straight women have more reason than the men ot get the gays all settled down in marriages. (Not that that will keep them from roaming, as in “I’m married, not dead.”)
Oh, my God.
Please, PLEASE, my beloved gay brothers, PLEASE, take my “girlfirends” away!
I’ll do anything, ANYTHING / ok, the fee is negotiable, but hey, I’ve got your backs, my brothers. (oh, fuck).
OK, um, A real downside to being cis male het and MGTOW and having a bit of confidence, a smattering of coin and being able to shred third wavers with a few choice comments is that the rapacious beavers of all stripe stop chewing the woodwork and climb out of it all over you.
Confirmed aspie betas like me when red-pill dosed are as ill-prepared to handle such of the attention onslaught as F2M Steven (http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill/) was to handle male agency and responsibilities.
My gentle brethren, they are all yours. Make them go away. Hell, empower them, dress them up, block them from elevators, whatever.
My gratitude will be eternal, and my service in your cause, righteous, until you release me, or death take me.
And that is what the Bibo Sez.
Bless you!
Ginkgo and Clarence,
I absolutely agree. A lot of anti-nonhetero-males sentiment isn’t so much a disdain for non-heterosexual sexual preferences, but rather disdain for the weak, effete, “stereotype gay” type. And it seems that it is the “stereotypical” kind of gay person that endures more discrimination than non-stereotypical gay people.
That said, I also agree that disdain towards weak and effete kinds of behavior isn’t simply “another kind of misogyny.” Someone can dislike weakness for reasons that AREN’T related to the cultural association between weakness and femininity. I dislike weakness as well, irrespective of whether or not it is a man or woman that is weak!
In many ways, I think that the reduction of “sissyphobia” to “misogyny” is based on gynocentrism. It sees the “feminine” as the norm, to which the practice of “masculinity” is about separating oneself from. Thus, a failure at masculinity is automatically seen as equivalent falling into femininity.
Whilst there is some evidence for this, I think the reality is a bit more complicated.. as I wrote in my article on /r/Masculism called “Separating the ‘Boys’ from the ‘Men'”, I think that the traditional gender system works differently for men and women. Women are seen as ‘naturally’ or ‘innately’ feminine, but a man must (socially) EARN his “real manhood” by having it bestowed upon them by other men (and sometimes, women). Women are ‘beings’ or objects, men are ‘doings’ or subjects.
So I think that socially, “males that have not earned ‘real manhood'” are not so much treated as females per se, but rather as ‘boys’ or immature, incomplete men. Kind of a third gender classification, you might say.
The most depressing thing about the videos is the “likes and dislikes” on youtube.
It’s true that all 3 are getting more likes than dislikes. But both the “Gay Men will Marry” and “Straight men respond” vids have been watched far more times than the “Gay women” video.
There are over 20 times as many “likes” as “dislikes” for the “Gay Men will Marry” video, where as there are around 2/3 as many “dislikes” as “likes” for the straight response.
Now admittedly the original Collegehumor video is a higher cost video to make, and shows better production skill. The first vid was filmed in more affluent surroundings and the actors involved are better dressed.
And clearly Collegehumor is mostly watched by younger people, and so they would probably be the most likely to watch the linked “response” vid. The straight guys (with the exception of the guy in the bar) look older than the normal “college age”, in one case older than me by ten years or so. So this isn’t their demographic if , as I suspect, most of the dislikes are coming from college kids.
But it goes farther than that, I think. The second video has an implied criticism of women , and it also uses the word “sluts” (and not in an “empowering” way). The first video is, of course, a non-stop implied criticism of heterosexual men, conducted by gay men.
I’m willing to bet that most of the “dislikes” of the straight video response are college age women, who don’t like the implied criticism they were all-too-willing to overlook in the first video because it didn’t apply to them. Most of the critical comments in the threads seem to be from women.
Anyway, some things never change. Most women, esp the younger ones tend to be by both socialization and biology looking for as many reasons to hate the vast majority of straight men as are possible, all the while thinking they are above reproach.
I’ve had my mother tell me how great her gay friends are, how safe she feels with them, and almost immediately thereafter put them down for not being sufficiently masculine.
So yeah … I guess I’m among those who think homophobia and femmephobia are ultimately about some portion of straight women policing masculinity and pushing their rhetoric onto other straight women, creating a unified front. Therefore if you are a straight man, possibly you have internalized the idea that being unmasculine (nevermind anything which could be construed as feminine) is very bad for your sex life and possibly your sense of worth as a human being. Fits in with the idea that unmasculine gay men are the result of not giving a shit about what straight women desire.
Does make the contrived interpretation of homophobia as misogyny deliciously ironic.
*shrugs* I realize this is noncontroversial here. Imagine green Marcotte-witches sending out flying Futrelle-monkeys to control men. This is NOT what I’m saying, but hopefully the mental image compensates you.
IogSotot, welcome.
Yeah, I am very, very familiar with what you are taking about. it all comes down to controlling men, the root of objectification.
And thanks for that image. Here’s one for you – in your mind throw a pail of mop water onto her.
I get the impression that a lot of the nastiest homophobia actually paints gay men as, in some ways, ultra-masculine. The idea that gay men are probable child molesters certainly puts them in a very male role- most people are at best dimly aware that female sexual predators even exist. And the basis for the conflation between gay men and pedophiles targeting boys seems like a very masculine stereotype- men are amoral, indiscriminately lustful sexual brutes, so if a man is attracted to grown men odds are he’s interested in little boys, too.
Similarly, a lot of really homophobic straight men seem convinced that every gay man is out to get into his pants or try to “convert” him, by means fair or foul (It’s sort of how I’d expect a lot of male feminists to act if they took gay men seriously as men, actually.) This is, again, a male stereotype- men are sexually predatory, only after one thing and hell-bent on getting it.
Straight Men Reply : https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tSX0vGnjkws
Money quote: “Yeah – if we thought marrying our girlfriends would be awesome, we’d do it ourselves.”
Ajax, I loved that! I saw that on Reddit and loved it. And that money quote is dead on the money, as it were. That is exactly the point.
All through the 90s we heard about “commitphobes”, men who wouldn’t commit, even though the divorce rates were already showing that it was women that didn’t commit, even when they did marry. This morphed into “where are all the good men?”. The answer of course was that they were already with all the good women or gay or had given up.. And you did see “All the good ones are either married or gay.” That left out the other third, but by definition they were not good, because they were failing to live up to women’s expectations – this is what sexual entitlement looks like.
I think your link is to the Straight mans response to the gay video???
Or you could reject all of that shit implicitly and be a badass tryke like me. ^_^
Having watched the three videos
“Gay men will marry your girlfriend”, the “straight guys response” and “gay women will marry your boyfriend” I have made up my mind:
1.I support gay marriage for men.
2.I support gay men marrying girlfriends.
3.I oppose gay marriage for women.
Vaerie, that’s the new word for the week! “Tryke” – that’s golden.
Jupp, me too, all but 2.
Because:
1) That’s not our cross to bear.
2) There is only so much gay dick to go around and the breeders don’t get none. /s
3) Straight women can have all the straight men they want if they will just pull theier asses out of their heads and get real.
I think what he was getting at is that he really, really wants gay women to marry him
@Ginkgo:
“2) That’s not our cross to bear”
TOO LATE! HUEHUEHUEHUE, you have been volunteered by a younger generation of gay men who have never questioned the “natural” alliance between straight women and gay men, and now you are totally obligated to marry single, straight women! Go ahead, make us straight men jealous and full of regret for not marrying the “special princesses” you are now tied to! Please do, because as everyone knows, the best way to get a man to do something is guilt him by showing him how easy it is for a nancy boy to do, right? /s
dungone,
Too late anyway; i got married and got a beautiful son and now a grandson out of it. My ex-wife is a better than decent person, if a bit of a trial to actually live with, and she is an outstanding grandmother so far, so it’s all good.
But you are dead right about that so-called natural alliance.
Speaking of gay men and sptraight women, sad post pending. The gay man in question was a pretty down-the-line narcissist, and he mistreated this friend of mine pretty badly. A cautionary tale to women who think a gay man is their dream soul-mate.
That was ES, not me 😉
Valerie Keefe:
I have a suspicion that that is not actually something that most people can do by choice, although I could not prove it.
SWAB is right. I cannot be a dyke of any kind. I once saw a hilarious t-shirt on this ruddy hairy guy at a gay country bar “No one knows, but I’m secretly a lesbian”, which made it especially funny, since it’s the kind of thing you normally see at straight country bars.
Mostly it’s the sex with women part – been there, done that, got the kid – but the horrific lack of any esthetic sense is a non-starter too.
The gay men video claiming to take the girl friends away was awful. The straight man video telling the gay men to please take our girlfriends was awesome. IMO. I agree, a video of gay men telling women about stealing their boyfriends…that would be good. In any case I am not a fan of these raunchy styled college humor things. Compared to say a video about fathers vs mothers or something…which I’d be able to relate to much more.
“The gay men video claiming to take the girl friends away was awful.”
I agree. It plays on that stupid high school business of the gay guys teaming up with the straight girls against the straight guys. That is stupid enough but it’s high school after all. To carry it on into “adulthood” is pretty sad, as well as self-defeating.
“I agree. It plays on that stupid high school business of the gay guys teaming up with the straight girls against the straight guys. ”
Maybe things are different now, but when I was in High School quite a few of the girls participated in gay bashing (though the incidents of “bashing” were almost always verbal not physical in defense of my school). Is it some sort of cultural “meme” these days that straight girls should/do team up with gay men to bash straights or is that just wishful thinking? No doubt they often ally politically when college age and above, but I don’t recall any “gay mafias” in my high school…
When I was in high school nobody was gay. That’s to say no one was gay and out as gay. To be gay was something very bad. Something people hid.
I do agree with the notion that it takes a high schooler mentality to be friends with someone because they are (for example) gay. Or that the defining quality of one’s relationship is that “he’s gay!” as opposed to such things like sharing a common interest (like for my wife, some of her male friend tennis buddies are gay…but she doesn’t call them her gay friends. they are her tennis friends); compare this to women who fancy themselves as “fag hags” or some other trendy nonsense. I dunno, it just seems shallow, pathetic, and cruel. But whatever, people can do what they want, it’s all good. I don’t have to approve.
dungone:
Yes, kind of. I meant that the “gay women will marry your boyfriends” makes a good point, assuming we live in a world where those stereotypes are true.
Those gay women are simply superior partners to man, not only because they share their interests, but also because they are easier to live with; demonstrated for example by the fact that they just by three pairs of the same jeans instead of taking forever to decide which slutty dress to buy. So what are the drawbacks of a gay wife? Well, she will not find you sexually particularly appealing, but where exactly is the difference to straight women? And if, while having sex with me, my wife thinks about somebody else, I prefer that both of us think about the same person.
The “gay men” video didn’t make an equally compelling case. For one those didn’t behave as naturally as the women (though here my perception could be biased by gender role enforcement). Also which woman wants a partner, who will rather appreciate his shirt than her boobs. And the reaction: “we didn’t check out the other woman” “Of course not. Ewww.”, just shows a negative and unpleasent attitude. But the biggest problem for the gay guys would be, that for women “the perfect man” is a hybrid of “the gentle best friend” and “the hyper masculine man”; “the perfect woman” for men is more consistent.
“Maybe things are different now, but when I was in High School quite a few of the girls participated in gay bashing (though the incidents of “bashing” were almost always verbal not physical in defense of my school). Is it some sort of cultural “meme” these days that straight girls should/do team up with gay men to bash straights or is that just wishful thinking?”
I don’t think things have changed that much, clarence. I think all those contradictory things happen all at the same time.
This is what I think is happening. Gay boys get hated on by both straight boys and girls. But straight girls hate straight boys so much they offer a home to gay allies. Maybe the gay boys feel the hatred from the other boys more keenly because that’s where they want to fit in, or maybe they are just settling for the girls because they take any port in a strom. I don’t really know because i never saw it back when i was grwoing up, i have only heard about it.
As a man who has actually met women who never wanted to have kids, never wanted to feel anything inside of them that has harder than a tongue and weren’t attracted to big muscles at all, but *loved* watching men ejaculate, I’d say that the “lesbians who would marry men” sketch was the most effective one. In fact, I’ve known (personally and online) far more female Kinsey 4+ to 6 women whose views towards the penis sat between nonplussed and intrigued, than male Kinsey 4+ to 6’s who felt the same way about the vagina. I wonder who would be happier in the long run: a man who was married to a woman who’d deliver handjobs on request (and nothing else), but had access to MSG and Barclay Center tickets, or a woman who was married to a man who was always emotionally available but thought that seeing to her physical needs was the (heh) “unkindest cut”?
Ahem… women do not go for homosexual men or if they do, it’s because they know these men will not try anything sexual with them. It’s comfortable, it’s easy, it’s like being with another girl.
If a girl hangs out with a homosexual male friend, it means she’s not attracted to him in the least. She may like him as a person or she may go for the fashionable aspect of having a homosexual friend, but she sure does not want any sex with him.
Twisk, welcome!
You’re right, and that’s why this whole thing was silly. It was celarly made as a joke because it were really a thing, it would already be happening.
But it does raise the question of fag haggery and also of hag faggery – especially of the gay feminist type. That has always looked really predictable and completley illogical to me.
Wow-so I’m NOT the only one thinking “hey, wait a minute-isn’t the reality that GAY men are the big threat to feminists? We truly don’t need women…for ANYTHING”. LOL
And for those of you who aren’t aware of it yet-there is a growing group of GAY men who are as sick of feminists as the rest of you. We’re equally tired of being the second class citizens at feminist tables-yeah-we may rate a bit higher than straight guys (who are probably third class for now)…but in the end, we’re still considered guilty by reason of genitalia. Gynocentric feminism has nothing to offer men-gay or straight, anymore.
The more I dabble in the MHR/MRA movement-the more I move toward MGTOW. I’ve actually been figuring out ways to basically go ghost-the how of it and the when of it.
Perhaps I should start a group-Gay for MGTOW…or maybe I should just start taking all those feminists’ boyfriends away. After all, unlike them, I happen to LIKE men-I think they’re a wonderful creation…something feminists have entirely lost sight of…LOL
And yep guys, trust me…we’re better at some things than women are. 🙂
Political Cynic, welcome!
“The more I dabble in the MHR/MRA movement-the more I move toward MGTOW”
We gay men are the original MGTOWs. That’s one of the roots of homophobia – we don’t go out and try to get the girl and prove what mack daddy studs we are.
“Perhaps I should start a group-Gay for MGTOW…or maybe I should just start taking all those feminists’ boyfriends away. After all, unlike them, I happen to LIKE men-I think they’re a wonderful creation…”
You bitch. I love it! Stick around; we are going to have a lot of good conversations. I like the Gay-MGTOW idea and you know what would be even more transgressive? – a Gay-MRA group. They love to smear the MRM as homophobic. Let them suck on that awhile.
Here in the emnatime is an odl post of mine you might get some good from. It builds on a talk that was given back in 1976 about feminist gay-bashing.
http://www.genderratic.com/p/912/misandry-feminist-gay-bashing-edited/
“And yep guys, trust me…we’re better at some things than women are. :)”
Actually:
“we’re better at some things than women are :O”
There, fixed that for you.
LMAO-actually I’ve already found that post on feminism and gay rights. I’ve actually ARGUED from there that feminism is inherently inconsistent with gay men’s rights-because by definition gay men are still MEN and therefore “evil”. LOL
I love it-a gay MRA group and a gay MGTOW group could be MUCH fun.
““we’re better at some things than women are :O””
ROFLMAO I stand corrected,,,or should that be kneel…hmmm…