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#FeministLogic

For decades, feminists have promoted a narrative deeming western civilization a “rape culture” in which the female population at large is sexually dominated by the male population at large. While different subgroups of feminist ideologues use different wording to describe the concept, the overall narrative has a set of characteristics that are common to most of the descriptions I’ve come across from feminist sources, including that expressed by wikiproject feminism’s editors in wikipedia’s article on rape culture. These characteristics are consistent with the earliest feminist writing to use the term to describe western culture, an article titled The Rape Culture, by Dianne F. Herman. Herman is cited in numerous other feminist writings on the topic.

Based on Herman’s long-form description it is fair to call the wikipedia definition, which cites her article, an accurate representation of the term’s meaning in feminist narratives. The definition:

Rape culture is a sociological concept for a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.

Many feminists treat this supposed culture as a gendered attack on women, perpetrated and perpetuated by male society in general as a means of dominating and controlling the female population. Others view it as a dysfunction rather than a form of malice, one that results from growing pains in the evolution of gender roles throughout history. Regardless of which camp they fall into, most feminists seem united in considering the phenomenon gendered, with women as a victim class, and men as a privileged or perpetrator class.

In the latter half of the 20th century, feminists in academia started from that narrow range of perspectives, which do appear to be rooted in Patriarchy theory, and set about trying to validate their belief in that male-perpetrated, female-victimizing rape culture.

This effort began with ideological writing, but in the 80s it expanded into academic initiatives that feminists called “research.” A 1993 article in the Toledo Blade, Rape, the Making of an Epidemic, by Nara Shoenberg and Sam Roe, covered this process. In it, the writers described the conflict between researchers seeking to understand the phenomenon of sexual violence in order to make prevention more possible, and radical feminists who wanted to prove male sexual violence against female victims was common, in order to justify funding for their initiatives.

The article describes an environment in which various researchers were trying to come up with a research method that would show the prevalence of rape in US society without relying on Justice Bureau crime statistics.

Feminists assert that Justice Bureau crime statistics are not an accurate reflection of the actual prevalence of rape, because they measure only crimes that are reported to police. Feminists assert that for a variety of reasons including fear of being stigmatized, many victims do not report rape to police.

Beyond that, researchers in the field have been divided into two main camps. One camp relies on legal and socially prevalent definitions of sex crimes, and measures prevalence based on individuals describing and labeling their own lived experiences. The other relies on ideological definitions of sex crimes and measures prevalence based on labeling individuals’ descriptions of their lived experiences for them.

Both the differences, definition and experience-labeling, are significant.

Traditionally, the legal definition and social understanding of rape relied on intent, wherein the perpetrator of the crime deliberately took measures or exploited conditions to contravene the victim’s rejection or refusal of sexual contact. The law’s recognition of this was contained in wording that only criminalized actions committed against the victim’s will, or against fully incapacitated or incompetent victims. This definition recognizes normal sexual conduct as a mutually engaged behavior between freely-acting, competent adults.

Feminism’s ideological definition of rape starts from a seeker/gatekeeper model, or a view in which one side of a sexual encounter acts upon the other, with the crime being defined as the acting party engaging in the sex act without the other party’s explicit, unmistakable permission. This view does not rely on intent, and requires normal sexual conduct to include a series of requests for permission in order to not be considered rape. Feminists spent over 20 years pushing for the state to adopt this model, reflected in a change of wording from “against the victim’s will” to “without the victim’s consent.” There is disagreement among feminists over whether a woman’s consent can be nonverbal, even when she initiates sex and physically controls the encounter.

The research described in the Toledo Blade article ranged across both camps, with researchers like Margaret Gordon of Northwestern University finding a prevalence rate of 1 victim in 50 women based on a survey that asked women if they’d ever been a victim of rape or knew anyone who was a victim of rape, while Mary P. Koss of Kent State university found 1 victim in 4 women using much more vague and indirect questioning, then imposing a label on women’s answers rather than asking them theirs.

Feminists criticize the use of women’s opinions on their own experiences as an inaccurate means of measuring those experiences. Their excuse is that they consider women commonly ignorant of the nature and scope of sexual violence. They claim there are victims who don’t know they’ve been victimized, and accepting their assessment of their own experiences obscures prevalence rather than measuring it.

Critics of the Koss method argue that vague, indirect questioning followed by researcher labeling of respondents’ experiences results in consensual encounters being lumped in with sexual violence, inflating prevalence statistics. In Koss’s first published research sample, 73% of her respondents disagreed with the way she labeled their experiences, and 42% continued to have sex with their alleged rapists. In response to criticism of her methods, Koss eventually made revisions her survey questions but did not change them enough to account for intent. She solved the problem of respondents’ disagreement with her assessment of their responses by eliminating the part of her process that measured respondents’ opinions and choices.

Despite these issues, Koss’s career received a major boost when Ms. Magazine co-founder Gloria Steinem took an interest in promoting her work, sponsoring the survey that received so much criticism. Koss’s conclusions from it were used to advocate for the passage of the Violence Against Women act of 1994, which “updated” the Family Violence Protection and Services act by gendering the law, attacking due process considerations, and imposing ideological indoctrination on law enforcement, prosecutor, and court personnel. Her methods have been adopted not only by the mainstream of feminism’s sexual violence research community, but also the Centers for Disease control and the United Nations. Her statistics are cited by feminists all over the world as evidence for the validity of their rape culture narrative.

Remember the substance of that narrative: Rape is supposedly pervasive and normalized in our society due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.

When feminists make this claim, they’re talking about male-perpetrated, female-victimizing rape. They are not talking about female-perpetrated sexual violence.

So what does sexual violence prevalence research show about that?

Contrary to feminists’ expectations, when male victims and female perpetrators are not excluded from prevalence research, the results show near-equal rates of both victimization of and perpetration by both sexes.

Using Koss’s survey methods and definitions, the Centers for Disease Control did National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence surveys during 3 separate years, recording responses from both sexes each time. In order to get an accurate reading of the results, one has to get past one sneaky definition.

Koss defined rape to require that the victim be penetrated, her specific intent being to ensure that female perpetrators against male victims would not be labeled rapists. This is explained in her report, Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods, in which she “justifies” her exclusion of men from the term’s definition, thus:

“Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.”

If you’re wondering where to find the explanation as to why she actually chose to make that exclusion, don’t worry. You’re not alone. She didn’t give an explanation.  She just claimed it was inappropriate to label forced sexual intercourse “rape” when a woman is the one forcing it, and the victim is male.

Because CDC researches used Koss’s definitions, in order for the reader to evaluate the prevalence of female-perpetrated rape of male victims, one must look at the “made to penetrate” statistic from this research. Alison Tieman did that not long after the CDC began publishing its NISVS report. Her article, Manufacturing female victims, marginalizing vulnerable men, outlines what the research’s methods had obscured, and how.

If we look at the more reliable statistic, the risk of rape in the last twelve months, and we fix the NIPSVS’s mistake in classifying forced envelopment as “other sexual assault” and not rape, we find that 80% of men report a female rapist and 98% of women report a male rapist. (This estimate is based on the sex of reported perpetrators for sexual assault over a lifetime. There is no reason to think the number of female perpetrators for ‘forced envelopment’ would decline between the lifetime and last year reports: if anything they would increase.)

Since there were roughly equal numbers of men(forced to penetrate) and women(forced to envelop) raped in the last year, if we look at a population of 100 rape victims, 50 of which are male and 50 of which are female and apply the statistic that 80% of the male victims were raped by a woman, we get 40 male victims raped by a woman.

That works out to about 40% of rapists being female and 60% being male. A far cry from 95+% of rapists being male.

Incidentally, the researchers didn’t even know why they defined rape the way they did. They just relied on existing feminist research to tell them what to do, and were therefore unable to explain it when asked about it.

Since the 2010 NISVS report was published, men’s rights advocates have been discussing this issue. There are equity feminists who have responded more rationally to this information. Christina Hoff Sommers has been a critic of Koss since the publication of her original research, and in 2016, Lara Stemple published similar observations to those Alison and others in the men’s rights movement had been articulating.

Gender feminists, however, have been outraged at these discussions. They do not like the fact that it has been pointed out that feminist researchers deliberately designed biases into their research not only to inflate overall rape statistics, but also to obscure female perpetration. They do not like the fact that examination of the made-to-penetrate statistics reveal a far higher rate of female sexual violence than they have previously been willing to acknowledge. They do not like the fact that this contradicts aspects of their rape culture narrative – in particular the charge laid by gender feminists that sexual violence is a male weapon of domination and control used against the female population to keep them in line.

They’ve tried numerous arguments attempting to counter criticisms of Koss’s biased methodology, its implications for feminist sexual violence prevalence research, and its implications for feminism’s rape culture narrative. They’ve made fallacious appeals to authority and claimed that the research can’t be interpreted that way (all without backing their claim with evidence.) They engaged in circular reasoning, claiming “it’s different because women are targeted with sexual violence by men for being women, while men aren’t targeted for being men.” The basis for that claim is the existing rape culture narrative, which in turn relies on male perpetration being pervasive and normalized, but female perpetration not being pervasive and normalized. Acknowledgement of the NISVS and other research findings on female perpetration against men contradicts that. Feminists attempt to ignore that contradiction by circling back around to the claim that it’s different because of that narrative on gender-based targeting. They’re using their own argument as evidence for itself.

That argument has gone on for a few years, and it’s become obvious that feminists aren’t going to win it. Fewer and fewer bystanders are siding with them on social media where this topic is discussed. Media personalities and politicians are beginning to acknowledge the facts.

The response?

In the last month, I’ve begun to encounter a new argument from the more radical end of feminists on Twitter.

Now, when the question of female perpetration presented, they want to cite those Justice Bureau statistics they previously called an insufficient measure of prevalence due to under-reporting of the crime. Where men’s experiences are concerned, feminists are quite content to presume stats on crimes reported to police to be an accurate measure of the number of male victims and female perpetrators. They have been citing BJS stats to support the claim that 95% of perpetrators of rape are men, and only 5% are women, most of whom victimized children, not men.

Yet again, we have feminists trying to have their cake and eat it too… using a measuring standard that casts a wide net when examining male perpetration against female victims, but attempting to limit measurement to a much more narrow standard when examining female perpetration against male victims, all for the sake of maintaining the illusion that these crimes are a gendered phenomenon.

Nobody engaged in discussion of intimate partner and sexual violence issues should let this get by them in the process. It is one or the other, not one standard for women, and another for men. They wouldn’t like the results of taking their standard for men’s experiences, and applying it to those of women.

So far, none of them has had any answer when confronted with the point that if the measuring prevalence by limited to BJS would discredit the 1 in 4 statistic their movement uses to promote their rape culture narrative. Should they make that choice, rape can once again be considered a rare crime. We can stop turning university campuses into a gender-war-zone in the name of protecting young women from a so-called epidemic, because according to BJS statistics, there isn’t one. We can stop gendering intimate partner and sexual violence law, because if police reports are evidence of perpetration, then we don’t need laws limiting citizens’ access to the justice system, or the response the justice system can offer them. After all, we wouldn’t want to prevent victims from reporting their crimes to police, would we? And certainly, if women are not engaging in sexual violence, they have nothing to fear de-gendering laws that criminalize sexual violence, do they?

It seems in order to protect one foot, feminists are prepared to shoot themselves in the other. It will be interesting to see where this new turn in the discussion leads.

 

Hannah Wallen

Hannah Wallen

Hannah has witnessed women's use of criminal and family courts to abuse men in five different counties, and began writing after she saw one man's ordeal drag on for seven years, continuing even when authorities had substantial evidence that the accuser was gaming the system. She is the author of Breaking the Glasses, written from an anti-feminist perspective, with a focus on men's rights and sometimes social issues. Breaking the Glasses refers to breaking down the "ism" filters through which people view the world, replacing thought in terms of political rhetoric with an exploration of the human condition and human interactions without regard to dogmatic belief systems. She has a youtube channel (also called Breaking the Glasses), and has also written for A Voice For Men and Genderratic. Hannah's work can be supported at https://www.minds.com/Oneiorosgrip
Hannah Wallen
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Hannah Wallen

Hannah has witnessed women's use of criminal and family courts to abuse men in five different counties, and began writing after she saw one man's ordeal drag on for seven years, continuing even when authorities had substantial evidence that the accuser was gaming the system. She is the author of Breaking the Glasses, written from an anti-feminist perspective, with a focus on men's rights and sometimes social issues. Breaking the Glasses refers to breaking down the "ism" filters through which people view the world, replacing thought in terms of political rhetoric with an exploration of the human condition and human interactions without regard to dogmatic belief systems. She has a youtube channel (also called Breaking the Glasses), and has also written for A Voice For Men and Genderratic. Hannah's work can be supported at https://www.minds.com/Oneiorosgrip

  • Pandora

    Currently there are again two “stories of male misbehaviour” going around in the comics industry … where “the girl writes a whiney blogpost” … and – sadly – this time it is the ComicsGate crowd which creates the outrage … even if there are no actual accusations of rape being made. I try to calm them down a little … but “a woman was manipulated by a man? BOOOO” is basically the bottom line. They dont understand this bias and the second story doesnt even have clear-cut names attached to it and might be fictional.

    Obviously the SJWs in the comics industry are having problems with these narratives, because one of the perpetrators is Eric Esquivel, writer of “Border Town” (in the DC Vertigo line), a really awful and racist series that gets praised by the “rightthinkers”. Two creators working with Esquivel have left … just on the accusation alone, no police report filed, no “official” accusation made … NOTHING.

    Freedom of speech is about the right to be an a-hole … and in todays society women are allowed to be manipulative (i.e. a-holes) but men are not. This isnt equality.

    • hat

      Stop derailing with right wing SJW terminology. Intersectional feminists and women are to blame.

    • Pro_male

      “Freedom of speech is about the right to be an a-hole … and in todays society women are allowed to be manipulative (i.e. a-holes) but men are not. This isnt equality.”

      no it is not, freedom of speech is about freedom of expression.

  • Krle Krlic

    “For decades, feminists have promoted a narrative deeming western civilization a ‘rape culture’ in which the female population at large is sexually dominated by the male population at large. ”

    And anti-feminists have promoted a narrative deeming the rest of the world a ‘rape culture’. #AntifeministLogic

    • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

      Not really, Krie. Traditionalist Conservatives do, but it’s not a particularly antifeminist position.

      • Krle Krlic

        Libertarians who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/19/feminism-cant-cure-indias-rape-epidemic

        Neoconservatives who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        https://www.meforum.org/articles/2018/migrant-crisis-islamist-rape-culture-comes-to-euro

        Far-Right/Paleoconservatives who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        http://www.unz.com/article/what-brett-kavanaugh-really-means-for-rape-culture/

        Alt-Lite who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2016/01/02/political-correctness-protects-muslim-rape-culture/

        Gamergaters who claim rest of the world is rape culture:

        New Atheists who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        https://twitter.com/patcondell/status/963749221827514372
        https://samharris.org/podcasts/leaving-islam/

        Red Pillers who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        http://archive.is/5hiG8

        MGTOW who claim rest of the world is rape culture
        https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/8t9a9g/why_women_are_opposed_to_border_controls_and/
        https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/72ts4s/can_we_stop_with_the_refugee_rape_culture_myth/

        As you can see, these are all groups that could be considered anti-feminist. There are no feminists or leftists here. THese are all groups that many MRAs, for some dumb reason, consider to be “male-friendly”, “on their side”, “allies in the struggle against feminism, marxism and political correctness”….

        Not all of these examples are about Islam. Some claim that India is rape culture, some say Africa, some Latin America.

        And this is not even 0.00001% of what you could easily find out there.

        • Krle Krlic
          • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

            “Trumpists” isn’t a real thing.

          • Pro_male

            Trumpists is a real thing. In the same way that idiots who worshiped obama are.

          • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

            Only in your deluded mind.

          • Pro_male

            calling me deluded to disparage me?

            I remember when the trumptards were talking about trump ending wars, and talking about trump giving men housewives..

            Trumptards are deluded men living variously through an ex democrat who doesn’t give a fuck about them. It is just daddy strong man worship that is empty.

            Trump falsely accused the central park 5. Trump said women are the superior sex, and he claims he pays them more than men for the same work.

            High status resource hoarding psychopaths are not going to give a damn about low status right wing men voting for them. They will take their votesd gladly, then give them nothing in return.

            It is in fact very similar to how the democrats treat the republicans.

          • http://www.id685958.sexyiqyu.website edactual

            gloriasass already

        • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

          You’re still citing tradcons here.
          And you’re citing people who provided evidence for their assertions.

          • Krle Krlic

            Hahaha! Nice evasion.

            So, there is evidence for rape culture?

          • Pro_male

            Honeey badger Radio enables right wing misandry.

            They invite trad con nutters like Misandry today to speak on their podcasts, a person who is friends with the pro male mass murder TFM. (Why hasn’t TFM been called out by HBR yet?)

            They invite anti male trad cons dating couch deanna lorraine, who promotes marriage, and calls men who do not provide for women beta males.

          • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

            Your version of patriarchy theory, “everything I don’t like is a feature of the right” is duly noted.
            We’re not going to start censoring people, limiting who we talk to, or otherwise taking the SJW path of speech limitations because you prefer the MRM to be on one side of the political fence, no matter how many allegations you post, or how much of a tantrum you throw.

          • Pro_male

            “Your version of patriarchy theory, “everything I don’t like is a feature of the right” is duly noted.”

            This is both strawmanning and gaslighting. I do not blame the right for everyone.

            in fact what you are saying sounds a lot like.

            “you blame feminists for all the worlds problems”

            Same sort of lazy thought terminating cliche.

            “We’re not going to start censoring people, limiting who we talk to, or otherwise taking the SJW path of speech limitations because you prefer the MRM to be on one side of the political fence,”

            So when i point out that you enable misandry, and invite blatant man haters, that is me being an SJW, and wanting to supress freedom of speech?

            You know what, I am not even telling you not to speak to these people, but you could at least challenge them on their views.

            Right wing dating coaches who call men weak beta deffemate males. because they are not manly enough to date, should not be given an easy soft interview.

            Right wingers often falsely cry freedom of speech all the time. After doing so they often resort to banning themselves, are you going to do the same thing?

            “no matter how many allegations you post, or how much of a tantrum you throw.

            you sound like a feminist now. When MRA’s bring up valid concerns feminists go. “you are just throwing a tantrum.

            I am not posting allegations i am posting facts,
            You have had people on your podcast promote social Darwinism, extreme right wing views, and I can prove this if you want.

            You enable misandry, you have no leg to stand on as MRA’s it is as simple as that.

          • kirea

            Next time, invite som ISIS guys, and when the NSA is knocking at your door, tell them that you are only exercising your first amendment rights. Ridiculous example of course, but the point is that by inviting people like Misandry Today and Deanna Lorraine (both right-wingers who go on about weak beta males, not exactly conductive to advocacy for men’s rights), on friendly terms, you are making a political statement, whether you want to or not. Acting all concerned about free speech is nothing but a lame cop-out, a way of holding a (right-wing) political position without accepting responsibility for doing so.

          • Krle Krlic

            Problem is that a huge part of MRM/anti-feminist movement hasn’t found a way to criticize feminism without shitting on other men.
            Typical Western anti-feminist hates the feminists for the EXACT SAME REASON that he hates other men in other parts of the world: he believes that he is the only one who treats women well. And as a result of this belief:
            1) he hates feminists because he feels that feminists are not appreciating how well he treats women and he feels feminists love other men rather than himself, which pisses him off
            2) he hates other non-western men, because he believes they are all misogynists and that they are unjustly getting a free pass from the feminists, which again pisses him off

            And, on top of this, he hates weaklings, betas, wimps, cucks, libs, “soibois”, cultural marxists, and many others.

            And all of this derives from this belief that he and only he has done everything for women. This is why it is very difficult for many anti-feminists to separate anti-feminism from hatred for other men. They both derive from the same source.

            This is all extremely toxic and I don’t know how and when and if this is gonna get sorted out.

            (I say all of this as a White guy.)

          • Pro_male

            Have you visited my blog, you leave very good comments.

            The way we deal with right wing hijackers is to form a real pro male movement, that has standards, and boots the right wing anti male hijackers.

          • hat

            Damn you are dumb and dishonest.

          • Pro_male

            “Your version of patriarchy theory, “everything I don’t like is a feature of the right” is duly noted.”

            This is ironic since right wingers love ranting on about leftists and cultural marxists subverting and controlling society behind the scenes..

            They promote all sorts of conspiracy theories

          • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

            Continuing to display your cultish views only discredits everything you’ve said.

          • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

            You sound like a cultist – your version of “patriarchy” is “the right.”

          • Pro_male


            Hannah Wallen Mod Krle Krlic • 6 hours ago
            You sound like a cultist – your version of “patriarchy” is “the right.””

            Using a lazy thought terminating cliche to deflect criticism. That ironically enough is very cult like. Sounds like your accusations are projection.

            How about addressing our concerns?

          • Pro_male


            Hannah Wallen Mod Krle Krlic • a day ago
            You’re still citing tradcons here.
            And you’re citing people who provided evidence for their assertions.”

            That is feminist logic right there. Pointing to criminal acts is not proof of rape culture. Anyone can pick out a random crime story and then claim it proves rape culture.

            Rape is not accepted in Islam, it is done by criminals who happen to be Muslim.

            The right is anti male and are main enablers of misandry.

          • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

            Considering they’re not just pointing to criminal acts, your argument is meaningless.

          • Pro_male

            How is my argument meaningless?

            Just pointing to criminal acts and then crying rape culture is what feminists do.

            It is verbatim the same argument as feminists, just directed at third world men.

            The term rape culture as you know was stolen by feminists from a 70’s documentary about prison rape.

            There is no rape culture for women in any part of the world that I know of.

            You are letting right wingers off the hook, because you have a misguided affinty with them.

          • http://armorgames.com/user/eschiedler eschiedler

            “Pro Male” Why are you arguing with HBR, since they use logical fallacies to defend their flawed position? They are primarily women who are pro-relationships, a fact they openly admit on their interviews, which means they place using men for resources and they have found easy funding from anti-male right-wing men who want relationships ahead of anything else and prefer to hear that message. They’ll never come clean about this even though it is even odds that they are aware they are using this tactic.

          • Krle Krlic

            @gloriasass:disqus
            “Considering they’re not just pointing to criminal acts, your argument is meaningless.”

            Wait, let’s clear this up first: Is there or is there not a ‘rape culture’ in Latin America, Middle East, India and Africa, as it is claimed in the links I provided? I still do not understand your stance on this.

          • hat

            No.

          • Krle Krlic

            Asking Hannah.

        • Pro_male

          Thanks for hte post, it is a really good source.

      • Krle Krlic

        There are even FeMRAs who claim rest of the world is rape culture:
        https://www.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/4ph2he/the_term_rape_culture_is_just_an_expression_of/

        • http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/ Hannah Wallen

          That’s a feminist subreddit created to debate against MRAs, not an MRA subreddit.

      • hat

        Misandry existed long before feminism or the left right political spectrum. The right enables misandry MORE than the left.

        99% of antifems conflate feminism with the left, and blame the left for misandry.

        Stop denying this.

      • Broken Deity

        All rightwingers are tradcons and anti-male. The obsession with relationships within the manosphere distracts from real human rights violations against men and boys.

        Until you accept this reality, the MRM will continue to be a joke.

    • Pro_male

      Thanks for calling out double standards of the right.

  • Krle Krlic

    Can Hannah answer a simple question: Does she believe that the rest of the world is “rape culture” or not?

    Is West the only place in the world where women are not routinely raped?

    • hat

      She is deleting comments.

      • Krle Krlic

        I deleted them myself.

        Fuck this. There is no hope for MRM anymore. MRM is a club for old White guys. MRM will never move beyond right-wing rage and hatred for everyone else.

        And it’s not gonna get better. All the MRM/MGTOW sites, reddits, blogs, are only getting worse

        I’m audi.

        • hat

          Dude wtf. Why?

          Join our group on discord.

          We have a blog “fist in the face of misandric”.

          • Pro_male

            Your comments where highly effective, why did you take them down?