DBTGirl

MGTOW—A boycotting of women

I was arguing with a guy today about MGTOW.

He made the assertion that I’m a misogynist who spouts anti-woman rhetoric. So I challenged him to find anything I’d ever said that was anti-woman. My aunt has as of late been worried about me as well; she’s a little flighty but her heart’s in the right place. She means well, I know she does.

Me saying “women aren’t worth my time” was what he came up with. I responded as follows.

“And they aren’t: that’s not because I -hate- them. Going to the movies isn’t worth my time either: does that mean I hate movie theaters, movies, actors, actresses, popcorn, Junior mints?

No, it means they’re not worth my time, my money, my effort. What’s the logical progression of bothering? Go out, spend money, find a girl, chat, buy drinks—Oh, no can’t do anything till we’re sober again—otherwise it’s rape. So, meet her again, hang out. Maybe have a good time (1). Maybe we start dating, maybe not.

Repeat process till I find a girl I actually want to date (2). Start dating, it lasts a while but do we start living together or break up before then? Chances are we break up. Repeated 1st and 2nd process until I find a woman to live with (3). Great. Do we get married? Chances are not. Repeat 1st, 2nd and 3rd process until I find “the one. (4)” Now what happens? Divorce rate is over 50%—chances are, divorce.

Then what? I lose half my liquid assets, probably forced to move out of an apartment I had since before I met her and there’s a good chance I may have to pay alimony. Meaning I now live in serfdom paying forth tribute to a queen who I never agreed to serve. Oh yeah—sounds fantastic. Explain to me, why, any of that: is worth my time? It’s not that I hate women: it’s that the game is rigged and there is no -win- involved.

There’s no goal except to hope after marriage: she doesn’t decide to throw me off the cliff. That’s the whole point. That’s the only possible -good- outcome: is to eventually find someone who’s -not- going to take advantage of no fault divorce and throw me over the cliff. I’m hoping -to find someone- who is unwilling to pull the trigger on the gun pointed at my head. Sounds, fucking, lovely.

The game is rigged, the deck is stacked. It’s entirely a waste of time and a tremendous waste of money. And I’m -not- the only one who thinks so: for the first time in this country’s history: there are more unmarried adults than there are married adults. So quite -CLEARLY- I am not the only one who thinks the entire process is a waste of time. That entire process 1, process 2, process 3 then finally marriage: process 4, only to be held at gunpoint the entire time: apparently doesn’t appeal to a whole lot of other people, not just me.

We unmarried, are the majority in this country. Clearly, there’s something wrong with the process, because it’s the first time it’s ever happened in the past 238 years.

Non of that even takes in account how badly women -treat- men in relationships these days.

Which is most often horrible. They -constantly- insult and berate the men they’re with. It’s common, they think nothing of treating him with every discourtesy possible. They treat their male partners worse than they’d treat complete strangers. If a woman talked to a female coworker the way women most often talk to their partners: they’d be fired for creating a hostile work environment.

And they think nothing of it. As the guy, you’re simply supposed to ignore it. Insulted, degraded in conversations, being demeaned in front of her female friends, being berated in front of your own friends and you’re expected to ignore and deal with it.

Well I have a mild-mannered suggestion: leave me the fuck alone. The entire game isn’t worth my time, and anyone who *expects* to be able to treat me like trash and think I’ll do nothing about it? Rude awakening—I have no use for you. No piece of tail is worth being treated miserably.

I’ve never hit a woman I was with, I’ve never forcibly restrained a woman I was with, never conducted sexual activity without consent, never cheated on a woman I was with. I’d do nice things, buy her something just because I thought it was nice. Breakfast in bed when she slept in on days off.

I once scored brownie points going on a guy’s night out pub crawl. I was at my 3rd bar, place called wide open. I’m 5 doubles into the evening (I’m Irish and Russian, it was only kahlua, 20% not enough to get drunk on), I call up my Girlfriend at the time got her voice mail “Hey babe, I’m having a great time. I’m five drinks in, surrounded by beautiful women and I’m thinking of you. Wish you were here, see ya later babe.” She sends me a text half an hour later, how she’s sitting there with her girlfriends swooning over the message I left her.

She had a stomach ache before, I sat on the floor while she laid on the couch and gently caressed her abdomen back and forth until she felt better. Her all natural shampoo used to mat her hair so I’d sit on the back of the couch and comb it out for her using my fingers so that her hair wouldn’t snag. I’m a genuinely good guy, and I’ve always treated women exceptionally well.

Of the women I’ve dated, which unfortunately is way too many, I’ve only had two who didn’t treat me like shit. So if even a really good guy like me is rarely treated right, something is desperately wrong.

So yeah, I don’t hate women—never have. They’re just not worth my time because so few of them are going to treat me like a human being. If marriage wasn’t an extortion scam: and more women actually gave men any semblance of common courtesy—I wouldn’t have “thrown in the towel.”

There’s only 4 things a woman can provide a man.

1, A home: cook, clean, etc. That’s a home. Women don’t like to be domestic these days, most of them can’t cook anyway. And that’s fine, everybody has to work to get by these days, so that’s fine. I get it, I do. No problem.

-I- can cook, I’m actually quite good at it. My mother taught me how to cook so that I wouldn’t have to be reliant on women. Thanks, Mom.

2, Companionship. -IF- she treats you right… doesn’t constantly intentionally say and do mean or degrading things to you just because she can. Otherwise that’s not companionship. That’s living with an asshole from college who has managed to stay too long. If she doesn’t treat you with so much as common courtesy but instead is rude, spiteful, hateful or demeaning to you on a regular basis—why would you want to be around her?

I don’t want to be around someone who’s going to be mean to me: why would I? That doesn’t make any sense at all.

3, Sex. what women are convinced all men are motivated by. Personally i wouldn’t want to be having sex with someone I didn’t like, see #2. Remember, when a woman doesn’t want sex—you’re just expected to deal with it. If however a man doesn’t want sex—it’s considered abuse. “Withholding Sex.” I shit you not…

4, Children. I don’t want children, bless you if you do, good luck with that. Just something else that can be used against you in the divorce.

So that’s that. There isn’t anything a woman can offer me of value except companionship and sex. Sex, I don’t particularly care, and companionship would require a woman who doesn’t insult and degrade me all the time. I’ve only come across two while dating. Both became long-term relationships, both eventually ended. Different reasons, I’m not bitter. Still in contact, we talk occasionally.

However—generally speaking: women just aren’t worth my time. Doesn’t mean I hate women—just means I’m not interested in them. Feminists have two important slogans: “her body her choice” and “She doesn’t owe you anything”. Well, it goes both ways: “MY body, MY choice”, “I don’t owe YOU anything.”

Until marriage is no longer legalized extortion and or until women think it’s unacceptable to treat their male partners like disposable trash—I’m not *going* to be interested either. Simple as that.”

Now, why do I think marriage is extortion? Simple.

Marriage has become legalized extortion.

“Extortion: The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.”

Invalidation of prenuptial agreements + no fault divorce = seizure of liquid assets + alimony.

Marriage today, in America, is identical to the legal definition of extortion. It is “The obtaining of property from another induced”—”under color of official right.” The legal system has been manipulated to make marriage the legal definition of extortion. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. It is, by strict legal definition, extortion.

It doesn’t end there!

Women can actually bring palimony trials against men they’ve cohabited with whom they were not married to. “Common Law Marriage,” it varies by state, but the possibility remains. If a man is in a long-term relationship and living with a woman, in the wrong state after breaking up, he can be ordered to pay alimony to a woman he didn’t agree to marry.

The only way to survive the game is by refusing to play when the odds are stacked against you.

Sorry, ladies, you’re just not worth the time, effort, money, or potential risks. It’s a cost-to-benefit ratio—you’re not in the black: it’s a huge deficit.

Domestic Violence
CDC Researchers discovered interesting facts when examining their own data.

The study, by CDC researchers Daniel J. Whitaker, PhD, Tadesse Haileyesus, MS, Monica Swahn, PhD and Linda S. Saltzman, PhD, found that a surprising 70% of cases of non-reciprocal violence were perpetrated by women.

The researchers studied 11,370 18- to 28-year-olds who had been in a total of 18,761 heterosexual relationships. They found that about 50% of cases of intimate partner violence were reciprocal, which they define as “perpetrated by both partners”, and 50% were non-reciprocal. Cases of violent women and non-violent men accounted for 70% of non-reciprocal cases, whereas cases of violent men and non-violent women accounted for 30% of non-reciprocal cases.

Thus: 50% of all cases of intimate partner violence among heterosexuals involve violence by both partners

35% of all cases involve a violent woman and an non-violent man

15% of all cases involve a violent man and an non-violent woman”

Women are twice as violent in relationships, yet we have the Violence Against Women Act and the “predominate aggressor policy.” You can egregiously abuse a man, including mentally, emotionally, or even physically, and if he hits you back, once, as response to anything but a near life threatening injury, he goes to jail.

Rape

According to Hanna Rosin in “When Men Are Raped”:

Data hasn’t been calculated under the new FBI definition yet, but Stemple parses several other national surveys in her new paper, “The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions,” co-written with Ilan Meyer and published in the April 17 edition of the American Journal of Public Health. One of those surveys is the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, for which the Centers for Disease Control invented a category of sexual violence called “being made to penetrate.” This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence.

I cover this in detail in my article “Rape Culture.” You can go there for more details on the topic. The point of me adding it here is to dispel some of the feminist threat narratives concerning men. I will, however, include the following as to why the CDC report on the numbers of MEN being raped look so one-sided with female victimhood;

We have Mary P. Koss—you know, from the fake “1 in 4″ statistic, same woman—to thank for having “made to penetrate” be added to the roster of classifications in the above CDC report. She lobbied the CDC to exclude male victims of female predators as being classified as “rape.” Now, if you ask the common person: if you are made to have sex with someone by being physically forced, or forced at gunpoint/knifepoint, coerced with threats of violence, you are unconscious, roofied, comatose, or any other form of incapacitation whereby you are incapable of providing consent or the sexual activity is committed directly against your will, is that rape? The vast majority of people would say yes, that is rape. Anytime someone conducts sex with you either against your consent or while you are incapable of providing consent, it is rape.

But not according to the CDC. Due to the actions taken by Koss, “made to penetrate” was created so that male victims of female predators could be discluded, by definition, from being “raped.” Therefore she could tout feminist statistics on female rape victims while completely excluding figures of males having been raped by women.

According to the CDC, a man cannot be raped by a woman even if he is physically forced, forced at gunpoint/knifepoint, coerced with threats, comatose, intoxicated, passed out, roofied, or otherwise incapacitated by any other means. By legal definition, he cannot be raped by a woman—no matter what. It’s instead referred to as “made to penetrate” and is therefore constituted as a form of sexual assault but not rape.”

 

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Men are raped as often by women as women are by men: and the definitions have been changed so that fictitious statistics do not show that fact. So not only are men unjustly jailed and prosecuted using the predominate aggressor policy when women are twice as violent, but men are raped by women just as often as the reverse. We have a Violence Against Women Act, which extends no protection for men. We are victimized as often and more often than women, and we are not extended the same legal protections. Ladies, is this what you want for your brothers and cousins? Is this the society you want your sons to grow up in? If not, help us.

Also, ladies, this has just been about dating and cohabiting. Men are in danger anytime a man even talks to you. No … really.

stopstreetharassment.org
“Overview: Street harassment is any action or comment between strangers in public places that is disrespectful, unwelcome, threatening and/or harassing and is motivated by gender or sexual orientation or gender expression.”

“Types: It ranges from leers, whistles, honks, kissing noises, gender-policing, and non-sexually explicit evaluative comments, to more insulting and threatening behavior like vulgar gestures, sexually charged comments, flashing, and stalking, to illegal actions like public masturbation, sexual touching, assault, and murder.

Gender-based street harassment can intersect with racism, homophobia and transphobia, classism, and/or ableism (as explored in Chapter 3 of the Stop Street Harassment book) to create multi-layered harassment.”

A man stopping to say to a woman “Hey, you look nice today” is street harassment under “non-sexually explicit evaluative comments”

In fact! “non-sexually explicit evaluative comments”: Man A watches Woman B parallel park a very tight spot and is genuinely impressed. Woman B gets out of vehicle and Man A comments, “The competency displayed by your vehicular maneuver was particularly exceptional and denotes a degree of skill far superior to the average motorist, huzzah to you, madam.” Woman B denounces Man A, emphatically pointing her finger: “That’s street harassment!”

Elevatorgate
In July 2011, Rebecca Watson, the founder of the website Skepchick, mentioned in a vlog an experience she’d had at a recent conference. A man had approached her in an elevator and invited her to his hotel room to talk over coffee. The invitation made Watson uncomfortable, and she suggested to her audience that they not behave in a similar manner. As it was just a note in a longer video about the conference, it went mostly unnoticed, except for two other female atheists who disagreed with Watson and believed the man’s comment wasn’t aggressive, and this all ended up devolving into the typical nasty YouTube comment fare. Even this did not cause anyone else to care.

A week later, while presenting at a Center for Inquiry conference, Watson discussed the response to her video, citing some alarming comments and emails directed at her. PZ Myers, a friend of Watson, would later defend Watson, arguing in a blog post that the insults and slurs directed at Watson were evidence of the sexism within the atheist community.

The post’s comment thread was full of trolling and hysterics, when Richard Dawkins decided to interject with a comment letter headed “Dear Muslima.” Dawkins accused Watson of overreacting, comparing her experience to those of women being forced to wear burkas or undergo genital mutilation (a classic example of the not-as-bad-as fallacy).

Dawkins identifies as a strong supporter of women’s rights and is a vocal opponent of the treatment of women by religion; however, his comments drew the ire of many within the atheist movement.

Things generally devolved from there, with some of Watson’s defenders repeatedly calling Dawkins a misogynist. A lot of big names, attempting to show off their credentials, came out in support of either Watson or Dawkins. The opinion of the lowly peon commenters was mixed, and sometimes quite sexist. Everyone agreed it was an overreaction but blamed the opposite side.

In a show of good faith, Dawkins arranged to provide childcare at future atheist meetings, a move generally praised by the community.

Three years after, Dawkins apologized for the “Dear Muslima” letter in passing on another blog post. Watson accepted it as better than nothing.

All because a man invited her to his room, and even according to Watson herself, he was very polite about it. She said now that he had said, “All right then, have a nice night” and left, like a perfect gentleman. I hate to inform you, ladies: men are in danger anytime they are even NEAR you. Think I’m joking? Exaggerating? Hyperbole you say? No, think again.

Donglegate
Two men were whispering jokes to each other during a boring tech convention speech. A woman, who was NOT addressed or targeted by said jokes, was offended. She launched a Twitter campaign against them. In the war of words that resulted, all three people lost their jobs. Point of interest: the jokes didn’t even involve a woman. Also, Richards, the woman who took such offense, days earlier had in fact tweeted “dongle” types jokes on her Twitter account.

Just for harmless, victimless jokes among themselves: two men lost their jobs because a woman was offended. She wasn’t part of the discussion, she wasn’t the target of their jokes, no woman, in fact, was the target of their jokes. They weren’t discussing women’s anatomy, they weren’t even jokes about women. They were bored, at a convention, and whispering to each other to keep from falling asleep.

Yet because a woman was offended by a private conversation, making the same kind of jokes she had made just days earlier on her own Twitter account, a conversation she eavesdropped on, two men lost their jobs and were publicly slandered, shamed, and harassed.

Men can be punished for talking to you or even talking near you. I do mean punished, by the way, they can face real consequences—including losing their careers—just for being anywhere near you. It all boils down to this.

The problem is five-fold.

1, Feminists incite bigotry in women toward men, which causes further problems as you will see.

2, Feminists have lobbied for changes to the law system in order to criminalize men. Made possible by the zeitgeist that men are evil.

3, Too many women are untrustworthy and perfectly willing to lie in order to punish you for anything—false accusations are commonplace. And rarely are they punished for this because man evil, woman good.

4, Even if not accused of wrongdoing by a woman, most women treat men like disposable trash, including being violent against their partners just because they’re angry—and they’re legally unaccountable for it. Kelly Brook struck two former boyfriends in the face (punched not slapped) and laughed about doing so on national TV. Man evil = he deserves to be punished.

5, The danger presented by the sheer volume of women who do scandalous things to get pregnant or married and put you on the hook for money makes it very dangerous to have close associations.

Positive pregnancy tests on Craigslist, lying about taking the pill, using a safety-pin to poke holes in condoms, one woman saved the contents of oral sex, got herself pregnant, sued for child support, and won. Another a month ago admittedly emptied the contents of a discarded condom, got herself pregnant, sued for child support, and won. Men are responsible for women’s actions …

So how does one proceed in an intelligent manner?

Look at this way, accurately stated: You’re in a room with 300 wicker baskets and five of them contain a precious gem. The relative value of that gem depends, but with it, you will be happy for a time. If you get the *right* gem, you can even be happy for the rest of your life.

In the rest of the 295 baskets, however, are venomous serpents, of various types and with varying degrees of toxicity. Some will cause pain, some will cause temporary paralysis, some will cause necrosis and wither the limb you stick in the basket. Others are fatal and a few kill quickly, while some kill slowly and with much pain and suffering.

So how exactly do you sort them out and decide which basket to stick your hand in? They all look the same … most of them don’t have audible hissing or rattling.

That’s why MGTOWs simply walk away. The ratio of good women worth our time versus all the toxic ones we have to stumble over isn’t worth the trouble or the risks. It only takes one bad choice to completely ruin or even end our lives. Sorting out which one is which is murder. Choose the wrong one and we could be battered, stabbed, mutilated, murdered, slandered, arrested on false charges, imprisoned on false allegations, coerced into marriage on false pretenses or forced to live in serfdom because through no fault of our own we’ve been shackled with child support payments.

Sorry, ladies, there’s a lot of good men who’d have been perfectly willing to treat you right, who have simply decided to walk away and not have anything to do with you. It’s not your fault, those of you deserving of a good man: it’s the fault of the hundreds of toxic women a guy could possibly stumble over instead of you. They’re dangerous, there are real-life potentially grievous consequences for a man who dates the wrong woman, or even speaks to the wrong woman: or even speaks NEAR the wrong woman.

We know “not all women” are like that, we do: the problem is that ssssooooooo many are. Good women are the exception to the rule. Someone who will treat her male partner with kindness, dignity, compassion, consideration: or hell, even just managing to treat him with basic common courtesy… That’s not the standard, that’s the exception.

There are too few of you too scattered and we have no way of picking you out of the crowd, so a man’s choice is to either play the game and keep sticking his hand in the basket looking for a gem—only to get bitten most of the time, and hope he survives long enough to find a gem—or walk away.

MGTOWs don’t see a point in playing the game: the possible rewards do not outweigh the risks of potential cost and harm. The game is literally so rigged against us that even the end game—success—is not a win of any kind. So we don’t play, and it’s you who misses out.

I’m sorry, ladies, but it’s only going to get worse unless YOU stand up and YOU fight for MEN. Legal extortion by just living together, predominate aggressor policy, criminalization of speaking to a woman no matter how politely, criminalization of even speaking near a woman. You cannot stand casually to the side and watch men being persecuted and say nothing but then turn around and complain when men give up on having relationships with women.

Young men giving up on marriage: ‘Women aren’t women anymore” by Hilary White:

Pew recently found that the number of women 18-34 saying that having a successful marriage is one of the most important things rose from 28 percent to 37 percent since 1997. The number of young adult men saying the same thing dropped from 35 percent to 29 percent in the same time.

Pew’s findings have caught the attention of one US writer who maintains that feminism, deeply entrenched in every segment of the culture, has created an environment in which young men find it more beneficial to simply opt out of couple-dom entirely.

Also clearly stated in “The war on Men” by Suzanne Venker:

In a nutshell, women are angry. They’re also defensive, though often unknowingly. That’s because they’ve been raised to think of men as the enemy. Armed with this new attitude, women pushed men off their pedestal (women had their own pedestal, but feminists convinced them otherwise) and climbed up to take what they were taught to believe was rightfully theirs.

Now the men have nowhere to go.

It is precisely this dynamic – women good/men bad – that has destroyed the relationship between the sexes. Yet somehow, men are still to blame when love goes awry. Heck, men have been to blame since feminists first took to the streets in the 1970s.

If you have pondered what MGTOW is, I say it simply and as truly as possible: it’s a revenge, and that revenge is a boycott. Men are genetically, biologically, and socially conditioned not to want to harm women, even when we are being harmed by them. MGTOW is a refuge, a safe haven within our own selves. It’s a protest saying that we will not be dehumanized, we will not be criminalized for being born, we will not be treated like second-class citizens.

Why do I call it a revenge? Simple. The most harmful thing we could do in reprisal to the treatment we have received is to not have anything to do with you. That is our revenge, to cast you off and leave you adrift on your own, alone. As the punishment we receive for being born different continues and becomes worse, you will see more and more of us.

More and more of you, ladies, will be alone. If you don’t stand up and fight for us, if you continue to casually watch while we are persecuted for simply existing, you will see MGTOW grow. This is our act of defiance: that we will not participate in the games centered around you. We will not pay you any attention, we will not court you, we will not date you, we will not sleep with you, we will not marry you.

More and more women will have fewer and fewer men available, more of you will not enjoy the warmth of companionship. You will not enjoy a warm smile in the morning. You will not experience the embrace of a hug and a soft kiss on the neck. No big wedding, no pitter-patter of little feet, no joys of parenthood. You will have no one to comfort you when you cry, alone, at night. More of you ladies will be alone: men are far more capable of dealing with solitude. We’re accustom to it.

MGTOW is a refuge from the danger women present to men in this society. It is also a revenge.

mgtow

In 2006, lesbians feminist Norah Vincent was interviewed by 20/20 about her book Self-Made Man. She conducted a gender study in which she cross-dressed as a man for 18 months. Then she wrote about her experiences. It’s a fantastic book you can buy on Amazon for under a dollar, by the way: I really recommend it. There are sections in it which made me laugh so hard I was crying.

Near the end of the interview, Miss Vincent said, “Men are suffering, they have different problems than women have but they don’t have it better. They need our sympathy, they need our love and they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together.”

The interviewer then asked Miss Vincent: “Do you think women understand what it’s like to be a man?”

Miss Vincent responded assertively: “Not at all, no clue. No idea.”

So, ladies, MGTOW is exactly what Miss Vincent prescribed after she spent 18 months as a man. It’s a gathering of men, as protection from those who would abuse us, rape us, persecute us, and demonize us. MGTOW is an ideological shift away from doing whatever we can to serve women, and instead investing in our own lives. Our revenge is our protest: a boycott. It’s only going to gather more men until women stand up and fight on our side. Until you ladies start speaking out against us being dehumanized just for being born different, you can expect the number of men willing to marry to decline further and further.

Pink Floyd “Hey You” ~ The Wall Album

Hey You (Waters) 4:39

Hey you, out there in the cold
Getting lonely, getting old
Can you feel me?
Hey you, standing in the aisles
With itchy feet and fading smiles
Can you feel me?
Hey you, don’t help them to bury the light
Don’t give in without a fight.

Hey you, out there on your own
Sitting naked by the phone
Would you touch me?
Hey you, with you ear against the wall
Waiting for someone to call out
Would you touch me?
Hey you, would you help me to carry the stone?
Open your heart, I’m coming home.

But it was only fantasy.
The wall was too high,
As you can see.
No matter how he tried,
He could not break free.
And the worms ate into his brain.

Hey you, standing in the road
always doing what you’re told,
Can you help me?
Hey you, out there beyond the wall,
Breaking bottles in the hall,
Can you help me?
Hey you, don’t tell me there’s no hope at all
Together we stand, divided we fall.

Observing Libertarian

Observing Libertarian

I am a Humanist small L libertarian Minarchist. In that order - As a result of this philosophy: I cannot in good conscience condone the actions of any group, movement or organization which seeks to oppress another individuals human rights. By education I have an Associates of Occupational Studies in Gunsmithing, and am qualified to testify in Open Court on the State's behalf as a Firearms expert. I am also an NRA Certified Firearm Instructor. I am currently in the Process of writing two books on Philosophy, and have only recently joined the MHRM.
Observing Libertarian

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Observing Libertarian

I am a Humanist small L libertarian Minarchist. In that order - As a result of this philosophy: I cannot in good conscience condone the actions of any group, movement or organization which seeks to oppress another individuals human rights. By education I have an Associates of Occupational Studies in Gunsmithing, and am qualified to testify in Open Court on the State's behalf as a Firearms expert. I am also an NRA Certified Firearm Instructor. I am currently in the Process of writing two books on Philosophy, and have only recently joined the MHRM.

  • Terry

    How, exactly, is this a revenge? The women who are most inclined to be the ones you want to avoid are also the ones who are your counterpart in the Feminist movement, the Radical Separatist Feminists, and you’re not taking revenge on them, you are handing them what they want.

    If you want to be MGTOW, be MGTOW. But don’t think of it as some grand political statement or vengeance against the other sex, look at it as what it really is: You have done a personal cost/benefit analysis of dating (in much the same way that you’ve done one of movie theaters) and have decided that FOR YOU, the benefits of dating and relationships do not outweigh the costs.

    That’s fine, and you’re welcome to it. There’s nothing inherently sexist about deciding that dating isn’t worth the effort/expense/whatever to you, any more than there is anything inherently sexist (in a negative sense) about being sexually attracted to your own gender instead of the opposite one. It just is.

    When you look at the marquee at the theater and notice that none of the titles hold any interest for you, you choose not to go to a movie. There are things you’d rather spend that time and money on, so you make the choice. If you turn on the TV and find nothing on that you feel like watching, you opt to turn it off. You make these choices every day in all aspects of your life, any moment you’re not buying a product or consuming a service, you have chosen at that moment to prioritize something else over that product or service. Any time you aren’t participating in any given leisure time activity, you have chosen at that moment to prioritize something else.

    That’s great, that’s your choice. But it is not a great political statement against Ultimate Frisbee because I don’t often go out to join the local team to play, it’s not any kind of vengeance against them. It’s just me prioritizing my day. There is nothing so special about me as to make my withholding my participation in an activity a punishment to anyone else, and I’m sorry to say, though you seem to believe otherwise, there’s nothing so special about you that makes your opting not to date any kind of punishment or vengeance against women. Those inclined to date will find other men to date and move on. Those who aren’t inclined to date won’t care whether you are or aren’t.

    And it is in your assumption that your boycotting women is somehow a vengeance against them that your legitimate choice to opt out of dating becomes misogynist. Your assumption that you are somehow so valuable that all women are diminished by your refusal to socialize with them on a romantic level.

    • coptic777

      Somehow you manage to dimiss the fact that over 85% of women want marriage and we are currently at the lowest marriage rate in the history of.the U.S. You can act like us opting out has no big effect but we shall see in about 10 yrs as the marriage rates deip further. We are making no impact while we keep.seeing “where are all the good men?” articles pop up.weekly. Keep telling yourself we dont have any impact.

      • Terry

        There will always be too few of you to make any real difference, and for as many of you as there are, there are an equal number of radical separatist feminist women doing the same, balancing the scales.

        I understand your point, I just think you’re mistaken when you see some grand revenge in what you’re doing. You’re making a choice based on a cost/benefit analysis. Good for you, every good consumer of anything should do that.

        But you aren’t a majority and I’d lay long odds you’ll never be much more than a tiny minority, too small to statistically affect the marriage rate…

        • coptic777

          I never heard any MGTOW treat this as some “grand revenge” as you put it. You can bring up radicl feminist all you want but it can not escape the fact that women are the ones pushung for marriage and children not men. Men are much more avle to live alone and do for self. Again keep telling yourself we have no impact when the marriage rates are the lowest in a century and its now not uncommon to hear. man say he does not date hardly or at all or they will never get married. Keep ingnoring thefact that 1 in 4 women are on some sort of mood stabilizing drug and this is the highest its ever been. Women in general are not happy and at least 25% of them need mood altering drugs to cope. Half of all 40 yr olds women are single in the US now. We now have 29% of men saying they will never get married now. I know you are not a student of history of social studies because if you were you would know that when you have 20 % of the male population that is able not wanting marriage your society is in trouble. Rome, Babylon, The soviet union etc. all.cite the break down of the family as being one of the main reasins their society fell. We are seeing the same thing now but you are so smart I will just ignore the facts and listen to.you lecture us about how we want revenge.

          • Terry

            According to a Pew study a year or so ago, 50% of women and 55% of men who have not yet been married express the intention to be married at some point.

            Thank you for playing.

          • coptic777

            And that somehow debunks my point? Im done have a nice life….

          • Terry

            Yes. Your point is that women want to marry and there are not enough men to fill the gap, and therefore MGTOWs and men with similar attitudes but without the label are preventing that.

            That kind of flies in the face of the above study which says that MORE men than women hope to marry some day.

            But I suppose it’s not surprising you can’t see that, so buried as you are in your cherry picked statistics.

          • Hannah Carr

            The most any of you are going to do is push women to radical feminism, i.e the feminist’s separatist, who want a world really separated, sorry terrys right, you kind of playing into there hands,

          • http://www.facebook.com/observing.libertarian Observing Libertarian

            Both of the following articles actually quote Pew research, citing the same numbers, in contrast to your statement.

            http://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/dr-laura-berman-on-love-and-sex/why-men-dont-want-to-get-married/
            “Is it just a myth that many men don’t want to get married?

            Not according to new statistics from Pew Research Center. Since 1997, the number of men who rate marriage as a top priority in their lives has declined from 35 percent to 29 percent. (The opposite happened for women—their desire to get married increased by 9 percent in the last several years.)”

            https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/young-men-giving-up-on-marriage-women-arent-women-anymore/
            “January 10, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Fewer young men in the US want to get married than ever, while the desire for marriage is rising among young women, according to the Pew Research Center.

            Pew recently found that the number of women 18-34 saying that having a successful marriage is one of the most important things rose from 28 percent to 37 percent since 1997. The number of young adult men saying the same thing dropped from 35 percent to 29 percent in the same time.”

            “Thank you for playing.”

          • Terry

            So… how can an article quote a study and then give directly contradictory numbers to what the study actually found, and you find the article credible over the original study?

          • anti feministpig

            Terry.., i sort of wonder each and every one of the “55%” who have not yet married are not yet married for the same reasons why one would never dive into a pool without first checking the depth of the deep end to make sure it’s safe. Maybe someone should say “thanks for not playing” to the 45% of men who have not expressed the intention to be married at some point – maybe this 45% know a ponzi scheme (marriage) when they see it and know the value of a dollar. Too many happily divorced women are also saying “thanks for playing” after initiating the divorce

          • Carrie

            Some corrections, in the same order of occurrence: Women are not the ones pushing for marriage OR children — men are. This is evidenced by how many men must pay so much money to import brides from other countries. ALSO, divorced men re-marry at higher rates than do divorced women. Women learn that marriage isn’t what it used to be, but men keep re-marrying and re-marrying because marriage suits men better than it does women.
            Marriage rates are right there with abortion rates and BIRTH rates. These are driven by women. Fewer abortions and fewer births are not by some rash of recently vasectomized men (although those would be a great way to keep up, guys!)
            Many women are on mood-stabilizers because the alternative to depression is suicide. Remember who suffers the most incidences of that? NOT women. Medicine for health, or suicide for escape — women opt to fix the problem, men opt to not fix it. Doing it all alone these days is a tough choice for many women, and bless those Paxils from preventing mass suicides; too bad men treat their difficulties with a bullet… not being sarcastic, it IS a shame that men look down on life-saving treatment. (Oh, married men statistically commit fewer suicides than single or divorced men, doncha know. Not true for women unfortunately.)
            Men outnumber women on Long Term Dating dating sites (and the F-buddy ones too of course). We only learned this once it came out how many top sites were falsely claiming far higher numbers of female membership. But dating sites are sausage fests.
            Women are hiring surrogates, getting IVF, and adopting, while men are still pushing the (in my opinion) SELFISH pursuit of spreading his father’s lineage and bloodline and name. To do this, men are seeking marriage. Not every man, thank god, but the ones who want kids are more numerous than women who do. Men poke holes in condoms too, you know. Just bang a Catholic, she’ll never abort. Or get an injunction to prevent any abortion, that happens too. Her body, her choice? Ha, not if men have anything to say about it.

            OK, the last couple weren’t addressing things you’d said, but you should have already learned them by now, and they will help you disabuse yourself of the notion that men went their own way voluntarily. Women closed the sanctuary doors and men have had to adapt: get a foreign bride, get a bullet to the brain, or get a group together who loudly pretend that it was their own choice not to marry.

          • John Smith

            For as unimportant and insignificant as the effect of mgtow is to you, you certainly seem hell bent on debating the issue.

            For me, I don’t see the revenge part. I have chosen not do marry, have relationships, or even date because the –very real world– hazards that go along with each has caused the thought of participating in any of the said institutions revolting and repugnant.

            At present, I would sooner m@sturbate with a cheese grater than get married, and my feelings about relationships and dating aren’t too terribly far from my feelings about marriage.

            I do not hate women. I am not angry with all women, or any woman in particular. I have not been burned by bad relationships, don’t have mommy issues, and when it suited me, had no trouble getting laid…. and from time to time, would even have women bribe with with food, money, and drinks to come over and… talk.

            Frankly, I don’t give a flying f*ck how my choosing to opt out of marriage, dating, and relationships is effecting women. If they notice and want to do something about it, good for them. If they don’t, good for them.

            Truth be told, even if laws changed in such a way, that it made it less easy for a woman use the state as a weapon to completely destroy a man just because he stepped on her feelz; I wouldn’t trust that the laws wouldn’t simply be changed back by a bunch of misandric harpies, who were just waiting for the right time to pounce.

            @Carrie — Do not bother responding to this message. I have no interest in continuing this conversation, and I have no interest in hearing from you. If you choose to do so, that is your choice, but do not expect a response from me.

            Good day madame.

          • Marius

            If married men commit less suicide then why is relationship problems and divorce one other biggest reasons for men to commit suicide. And more during divorce men commit 12 times more suicide than women since men usually loose much more than women due to a bias court, he loose his kids, what he built up, and have to pay the bitch for it as well. While men fear commitment, women don’t keep commitment, 70% of divorce are filed by women who don’t honor their commitments because the court rewards them for divorce.

            This is a good reason for men not to get married to begin with, So while married men commit less suicide, divorced men commit more suicide than single men(Never married) with the increase in divorce rate, an increase in suicide risk is expected later on. In India married men do commit more suicide than single men.

          • Carrie

            ”If married men commit less suicide then why is relationship problems and
            divorce one other biggest reasons for men to commit suicide”
            ^ Invalid conclusions^ More teen boys and pre-teen boys commit suicide than do divorced men. We could play the why-do-certain-men-commit-more/less-suicides-than-other-certain-men game for years, but only you would be willing. Furthermore, as married people get older, men begin petitioning for more of the divorces. The younger the wife, the higher the likelihood she will initiate the divorce, yet the older the male, the more likely he is to want the divorce. These facts alter nothing from my points, but they do render moot your attempt at a point.

            As for the courts “rewarding” women, well then, be an egalitarian and help wives get working incomes comparable to working men’s incomes. The higher a lesser-earning partner’s income is, the less likely s/he will be to qualify for alimony. Problem solved. Feminism considers alimony to be very outdated and insulting to women. Too bad men (and therefore lawmakers) disagree.

            As for fallacious “court bias”, this has been disproven over and over in the real world, yet the Manosphere refuses to acknowledge the only important fact: women are awarded most custody NOT FROM LEGAL BATTLES OVER CUSTODY, but rather because fathers willingly relinquish primary custody in more than 75% of divorces. This means it does not even reach court; attorneys do not get involved in 75+% of custody decisions. In the remaining cases, where there are in fact disputes over custody, the fathers get what they fight for: custody. Yes, men do get less custody, because in the vast majority of cases, they do not seek it. Seeking custody (for most men) means they have to work fewer hours to accommodate their custodial child, they have to pay a babysitter fr when they cannot get off work, and they cannot date/have sex freely. As for courts, custody tends to go to the person who 1.) works fewer hours (and has more time to spend parenting, and 2.) earns less $ because it is worse to force a parent to choose work/over/their/child.

          • Marius

            Do you have any idea how much nonsense you are talking? If you want someone to agree with you then I suggest you go to a feminist comment line where your points may make sense, here it doesn’t. your information is as accurate as the source, feminist sources with bias data and selective sampling are in abundance on all levels of BS.

            1) Middle age men commit most suicide not teens,
            “In many countries the rate of suicide is highest in the middle-aged[123] or elderly.[69]
            The absolute number of suicides however is greatest in those between 15
            and 29 years old due to the number of people in this age group” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

            2) For example you assume because attorneys are not involved in 75% of cases that if they would go to court that women would not contest and win, the 25% of cases that do go to court, the women are 90% successful, why would the other 75% that didn’t go to court be any less successful? the reason they dont go to court is because if the man loose then he must pay her legal costs 90% of the time so why cause more damaged if you know the outcome.

            3) You say feminist are against alimony but but how does it change every woman who take her ex to court for alimony or have him locked up for not paying is still mostly women doing it, she can choose if she want it or not, Its irrelevant if feminism agree or not, MGTOW does not say men stop to marry feminist, men move away from women. Its women who fight for their alimony and take ex;s to court and that’s all what matters for the sake of my argument, feminist stand in theory is irreverent. Its still women enslaving men economically and even feminist are admiring it. so it must be true. Women’s rights groups are still encouraging women to file for it.

            Ex. Today I saw a guy who was a sperm downer for a lesbian couple, who had a contract with them that he will not be liable for the child. Later the lesbian broke up, the one took him to court, win the case and make him pay child support while the other lesbian partner who had same custody of the child pays nothing. This while two women “activists” defended the lesbians rights fully to be get that money. Punishing him for helping them. Its still women who try to enslave men through the justice system, and its not a old male thing as if its comes from the past, its getting worse as women are more empowered. Women are getting greedier and more anti-male than ever before. Men cannot trust a woman on anything anymore. and don’t let me get started on how many of my friends got screwed over heavenly with women’s lies and legal advantages. I don’t say its feminist, I say its women. The judge was also a woman not a panel of old patriarchal males.

            You say men are making laws as if all the people in government and on the bar are all men, for in case you were sleeping for very long time, its 2015 now, wake up.

          • Hannah Carr

            Anyone is allowed to leave a relationship ANYONE that does not make them a bitch or dickhead, man or woman, it may hurt other people, which nice people will be considerate and try not to do, but falling out of love with someone, not enjoying the marriage being honest and leaving it does not make anyone evil, taking advantage of kind nature does, turning bitter does (which plenty of men do)

          • SydExE

            Women actually attempt suicide more than men do – but their attempts are often gestures for help. Men are far less interested in seeking help and choose the most lethal methods of self-destruction such as firearms. A bullet to the brain is pretty conclusive; 95% success rate in treating depression — beat that, Paxil. Keep downing those pills, you’re only delaying the inevitable.

            The high male suicide rate is because life tends to be harder for men, with them working long hours, in very high stress jobs (often in very dangerous conditions and in remote places) in a society that doesn’t care for their well-being (men killing themselves at a higher rate than women is a world-wide trend.) Men don’t seek help as much as women do because they’re less likely to get it… it’s as simple as that.

            Life can suck really badly for people of either gender (I’m a man and it
            sucks for me(still looking for muh male privilege.)) It’s unfortunate
            that there is so much animosity and mistrust between the genders theses days, it would make more sense for men and women to share in life’s struggles together as we float through space on this spec of dust,
            healthy relationships tend to be better than pills and bullets (imo.)

            I have no idea where this gender war came from or what it’s about, but men are certainly not happy with it. The fact that married men are less likely to kill themselves than single men should tell you something (It should tell you that we actually like having women in our lives,) no idea why women hate us so much… but… mah…

            “Women closed the sanctuary doors and men have had to adapt: get a
            foreign bride, get a bullet to the brain, or get a group together who
            loudly pretend that it was their own choice not to marry.”

            Harsh, but if that’s what women want, good for them… they have have fun in their old age with their 20 cats…

          • Carrie

            Oh, you were doing so well until you did the 20 cats thing. It’s times like these I wish my husband wasn’t allergic.

            How do you explain teen boys’ and adolescent boys’ high suicide rate? They haven’t been allowed to work yet.

            And do you support allowing women to work ‘hard, thankless jobs’ without being ostracized off the job? The men who find themselves forced to share those harsh jobs with women generally become quite unhappy with feminism at that point. (As if they weren’t already unhappy!) Women in construction have had to create their own unions because the existing construction unions have been a little testy… or should I say teste about women demanding to work traditionally “men’s” jobs.

          • SydExE

            “Oh, you were doing so well until you did the 20 cats thing. It’s times like these I wish my husband wasn’t allergic.”

            I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about the stronk, independent working womyn who “don’t need no man.”

            “How do you explain teen boys’ and adolescent boys’ high suicide rate? They haven’t been allowed to work yet.”

            That’s an easy one. Boys suffer the most from family breakups and seeing their father expelled from the family, it weighs heavily on their self esteem and sense of self worth. (I know this feeling personally.)

            “And do you support allowing women to work ‘hard, thankless jobs’ without being ostracized off the job?”

            I support laissez-faire capitalisim and believe people should be able to operate their business as they please, if women want to work in a field like construction, fine… but do it without getting the EEOC involved.

            “The men who find themselves forced to share those harsh jobs with women generally become quite unhappy with feminism at that point.”

            Sometimes men would just prefer to work in an all male environment, if they want to do that, then they should be able to… and women should also be able to work in an all female environment if they please.

            Gee, I wonder why men hostile to an ideology such as feminism… lol

            “Women in construction have had to create their own unions…”

            I don’t see a problem with this at all. If this is what makes them feel comfortable working in the construction field, go for it.

            Capitalism, baby! I wish America practiced it more!

          • Carrie

            But suicide rates for whites are significantly higher than for Blacks, yet I always hear on racist websites that Black men don’t often even affiliate with their offspring. http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures Even Native Americans kill themselves at much higher rates than do Blacks.

            Also, there are no records kept of attempted suicides, anywhere, by anyone. The CDC collects some numbers from hospital admissions due to “self harm behaviors”, which is no real substitute for “suicidal attempts”.

          • SydExE

            The black community has a very high rate of out of wedlock births, so many boys have NEVER had any contact with their fathers at all… also, the the black community in the U.S. is hardly a model of economic success and social stability.

          • Carrie

            Agreed, they are the opposite of wealth and stability, yet they manage to not fall head-first into bullets nearly so often as whites.

          • SydExE

            They’re also a majority of those living in poverty and serving lengthy prison sentences, that’s hardly a step up on the social ladder.

          • Carrie

            Agreed again — and yet they still manage to not fall head-first into bullets nearly so often as whites.

          • SydExE

            Well, we were talking about gender and suicide, not race and suicide. It could possibly be because most black youth are born out of wedlock (and never actually go through a messy divorce,) so it might not affect them as much –I’m just guessing on that one. It’s also a possibility that black youth subsidize fathers with gangs (also guessing.)

            I don’t have a good answer for the racial disparities in male adolescent suicide…, do you?

          • Carrie

            Agreed once more — you do not have any good answers for racial disparities re: suicide… but to be honest, your answers for the gender disparities was pretty outrageously negligent too. You know just as little about why whites commit much, much higher rates of suicide as you do about why males kill themselves at much, much higher rates.

            The only difference between your answers was that you took time to think up with reasons off the top of your head for men as long as they were white.

          • SydExE

            “your answers for the gender disparities was pretty outrageously negligent too.”

            Go into detail…

          • Carrie

            That will be easy! You made wild guesses as to each statement, even going so far as to include your personal history. These were not illustrative of causation, they were a kid running his mouth off to sound as though he had the answers to something. I tried this out on a 12th grade class, asking them to explain why a bunch of things were the way they were, and I very specifically prepared the questions to be the opposite of the way things were. Like, “Why do men live so much longer than women?”, and “Why are there so, so, so many more homeless women than men”? (Note — these statements are ass-backward, as were the rest that I made.)

            Boys and girls all raised their hands and started speaking oh, so authoritatively as to why whatever-I-said-was-the-way-I-said, even though they clearly did not know wtf they were talking about! Yet they absolutely persisted at the end of the class that they were right in their answers, and that I need to check my stats after I told the class this was a test and that I’d purposely given backwards information for this. People just love their own opinions, and have opinion bias — once they come up with a theory, they really prefer to believe their made-up theory is fact, because they came up with it.

            I’m not a teacher, but during the last week of class every year, our school lets a few parents come in for an hour shift if we want. They vet us and let us loose as long as we think we can teach a “real world lesson” in the hour. My real world lesson was not to make shit up just because it sounds good. And to examine facts before you try to build some big, comprehensive stories on top of the facts you haven’t researched.

          • SydExE

            ” People just love their own opinions, and have opinion bias — once they
            come up with a theory, they really prefer to believe their made-up
            theory is fact, because they came up with it.”

            “My real world lesson was not to make shit up just because it sounds
            good. And to examine facts before you try to build some big,
            comprehensive stories on top of the facts you haven’t researched.”

            This coming from a person who buys into feminist dogma, believes in an all powerful, mythical patriarchy that oppresses women in the first world, believes in a wage gap that has been thoroughly and tirelessly debunked, spews bull shit feminist rhetoric and uses links to extremely biased feminist blogs to back up her claims (while at the same time accusing others of being biased for using MRA sources, which wasn’t even true.) Let’s not even start with all the ad hominems and generalizations you’ve thrown around this thread. Such hypocrisy.

            My sides are in orbit.

            We can do one of three things here

            1) Get back on topic

            2) Continue attacking each other and going no where

            3) Just drop the conversation all together

            I prefer option #1

            The ball in in your court.

          • Carrie

            “This coming from a person who buys into feminist theory, believes in an
            all powerful, mythical patriarchy that oppresses women in the first
            world, believes in a wage gap that has been thoroughly and tirelessly
            debunked, spews bull shit feminist rhetoric and uses links to extremely
            biased feminist blogs to back up her claims (while at the same time
            accusing others of being biased for using MRA sources, which wasn’t even
            true.)”

            Now you are accusing me of quite a few things I do not subscribe to. I know it’s easy to instantly affiliate a person with those other people you already am bigoted against as soon as they have said anything resembling what you believe those other people to have said. I don’t fart around with feminism, nor the patriarchy — although something for damned sure keeps women oppressed, come on, and many people on this site have “backed up” their opinions (rather than facts) by using manosphere links. It’s akin to claiming Black people suck, and then linking to Birth of a Nation as “evidence”. And because it makes you feel good (I presume?), you prefer to believe the wage gap has been debunked… although that debunking has been debunked… meaning the wage gap is still present and accounted for.

            If the ball is in my court, I’m going to toss it to someone who does not rely on the mythology that real things which affect other people don’t exist. I can appreciate how hard it is to see the forest with all the trees in the way, but women aren’t so lucky, and we can see the forest plenty. I used to not realize I had white privilege even though I was always drenched in it; you are so drenched in male privilege that I can’t actually blame you for not seeing it. I hope when you maybe reach 30 or 35 you will begin an epiphany to see things how they really are, and you’ll see you’re in a position to help people who do not share your privilege.

          • SydExE

            ” I used to not realize I had white privilege even though I was always drenched in it…”

            This is really sad. I actually feel sorry for you now. You’re so brainwashed by SJW propaganda you actually feel guilty about your own accomplishes in life. This is just as disparaging as telling an extremely talented musician that he/she “has a gift from God,” attributing none of his/her abilities to years of hard work and effort, but rather to some innate attribute he/she was born with. You’re insulting yourself now. If you are accomplished and successful in life (depending on how you define success,) than pat yourself on the back and enjoy your accomplishments. (How exactly does one chek their privilege?)

            “you are so drenched in male privilege that I can’t actually blame you for not seeing it.”

            Feminist to the poor boy living in the hood be all like: check your privilege!

            I’m a 25 year old NEET former video game addict who lives off of disability and donations from his family and collects food stamps from the gubmint. I live in an apartment that rents for 650/mo and can hardly pay that. I grew up in a broken family and went to really shitty schools (and dropped out around middle school.) My life will be worse than my grandfather’s and parents’. My only value to society is to serve as a warning to others.

            If that is what’s considered privilege these days than America is in even worse shape than I thought.

            I wish I had some of this male privilege you speak of, I could really use some of it.

            “will begin an epiphany to see things how they really are…”

            My latest epiphany is that America sucks, what was your most recent one?

          • SydExE

            “Also, there are no records kept of attempted suicides, anywhere,
            by anyone. The CDC collects some numbers from hospital admissions due
            to “self harm behaviors”, which is no real substitute for “suicidal
            attempts”.”

            I was too tired to dig for sources earlier and you were giving me shit for not showing any, so here you are… (I made sure they were not MRA sites because I know you’re a bit touchy about those)

            “Women are more likely than men to attempt suicide. In terms of method, women tend to overdose or to cut their wrists.”

            http://www.hsccs.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737

            “Although more women than men attempt suicide, men are almost four times more likely than women to die by suicide.”

            http://www.womenshealth.gov/mens-health/top-health-concerns-for-men/suicide.html

            “Women are three times more likely to make an unsuccessful attempt than a
            man, yet will attempt suicide two to three times more often.”

            http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics

            “One of the most perplexing facts about suicide is that women attempt suicide at a substantially higher rate than do men, but more men
            succeed in ending their lives.”

            http://susan-blumenthal.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Susan-Blumenthal-Suicide_and_Gender.pdf

            Google, you are my greatest ally.

        • anti feministpig

          i’m sort of under the impression “an army or one”. I can and will devote the rest of my life to educating every single male about the danger of marriage. The marriage rate is already statistically changed and it’s a change for the better. My prayer is that one day marriage will be a distant memory due to being banned. Call it revenge if it pleases you.., think of it as something of a scorched earth policy but it is a movement that is well past the point of beginning to build steam – MGTOW is running on all eight cylinders and I really don’t think any unmarried adult male is looking back with any regrets. If you want to lay long odds you’ll have better luck playing the lottery

        • Phillip Folkler

          Terry, look at Japan now. 10 years ago it was a “few”. Now their economy is in danger of collapse and they have a severely declining population and all of the dangers of an aging population. Your problem it seems to me that you are looking for instant consequences to long term issues.

        • Marius

          Terry I hear what you say MGTOW is not about revenge and you are right, but you are wrong that it is not noticeable, a quick search on Google and the first of the108 000 000 results look like follows: im sure its not noticeable if you are in a coma.

          -Young men giving up on marriage: ‘Women aren’t women anymore’
          -Marriage Rates Are Falling, And For Some Faster Than Others
          -Young married men become a thing of the past as fewer than 58,000 husbands are under the age of 25
          -Why Are Young Men So Averse to Marriage?
          -What’s Behind The US Decline In Marriage? Pragmatism
          -Fox News Op-Ed: Men Are Less Interested In Marriage Because ‘Women Aren’t Women Anymore’
          -Women Continue to Want Marriage, But Men are Saying No
          -6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage …
          -Men Are ‘On Strike’ Throughout The U.S.: What Are … – Forbes
          -Why straight men are boycotting marriage – Daily Life
          -Why Men Don’t Want to Get Married – Everyday Health

          Then there are books hitting the shelves:
          -Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting…Helen Smith PhD
          -The Rational Male
          -The Manipulated Man
          -No More Mr Nice Guy
          -Bachelor Pad Economics: The Financial Advice…
          -That Bitch: Protect Yourself Against Women With Malicious Intent
          ….

          But you are right, no body will notice….LOL

        • MGTOW

          This nuke from orbit is called exponential growth:

          http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=MGTOW

      • Phillip Folkler

        The cherry picking is in focusing on the US only. Look to Japan, where young women are having Weddings for themselves… Look at the low birth rate (half what is needed for replacement)… Look at the serious decline in the “salary men” work ethic, where men dedicated there lives to their career in order to provide for their wife and children… (There is an old Japanese wives saying: “A good husband is healthy and not at home.” IE he is off working himself to death. Japan is and has been in crisis for some time. In the US it has only just started. MGTOW is only one aspect, but I would argue it is one of the most important aspects. It is truly difficult for a woman to understand, it is the oposite of feminism… It is not a “collective”, It does not have hard and fast rules… It is Men Going There Own Way… that is singular. My going my own way is mine alone, same for yours. We have philosophical similarities, we often look to similar thinkers in the movement… For me, I like what sandman has to say, but not everything. Same thing for Paul Elam and many others. I am going MY own way. I do agree it is not a REVENGE as that would make it too much about women and relationships. It is about a rational assessment of cost/benefit for each individual man. Even if you have a wonderful marriage, you can maintain much of the MGTOW mindset.. though that may only be in theory… lol

    • http://www.facebook.com/observing.libertarian Observing Libertarian

      “How, exactly, is this a revenge? The women who are most inclined to be the ones you want to avoid are also the ones who are your counterpart in the Feminist movement, the Radical Separatist Feminists, and you’re not taking revenge on them, you are handing them what they want.”

      You’re conflating two things as one. That’s only the -lesbian- separatist movement. A microcosm inside the feminist movement as a whole. Plus, we’re not boycotting all women to take revenge against feminism. We’re boycotting women as a protest against the way this society treats us: including the treatment we receive from non-feminist women.

      “If you want to be MGTOW, be MGTOW. But don’t think of it as some grand political statement or vengeance against the other sex, look at it as what it really is: You have done a personal cost/benefit analysis of dating (in much the same way that you’ve done one of movie theaters) and have decided that FOR YOU, the benefits of dating and relationships do not outweigh the costs.”

      They are one in a same. the more men who join mgtow or simply live by the principles of refusing to marry: the more women will complain about that fact. This in turn will force many women to open their eyes at the persecution men face in this society. Do not underestimate the power of a boycott: the civil rights movement was began as a boycott.

      “But it is not a great political statement against Ultimate Frisbee because I don’t often go out to join the local team to play”

      Unless you’ve organized a movement who have collectively decided to protest ultimate frisbee by boycotting ultimate frisbee.

      “And it is in your assumption that your boycotting women is somehow a vengeance against them that your legitimate choice to opt out of dating becomes misogynist.”

      That’s an irrational argument: Abstinence of based on legitimate grievance performed by does not equate to hatred of.

      “Your assumption that you are somehow so valuable that all women are diminished by your refusal to socialize with them on a romantic level.”

      Than why do I see so many articles from women, women’s magazines and feminists *complaining* that men are refusing to get married? Apparently, we are having an effect.

      • Terry

        How do you not get that MGTOWs are not merely similar to the separatist feminists (not all of whom are lesbians), they are EXACTLY the mirror image? The members of a gender so totally convinced of their ill treatment at the hands of the other side (real or imagined) that they decide they’re better off without the other side.

        Not all separatist feminists are lesbians any more than all MGTOWs are gay.

        The separatists feminists are an organized movement, just as MGTOWs are.

        And the number of straight men and women who will not wish to live under those strictures, who will feel more compulsion to their biological urges than to their politics will always FAR outstrip the number willing to put their imperatives on the line for that particular principle…

        Again, the numbers simply are not sufficient. Young people of both genders are shying away from life long marriage, as they watch their parents generation go through marriage and divorce after marriage and divorce. It’s not a single gendered thing, it’s a recognition that they’re being asked to buy into a system that simply doesn’t work in an era where most people are living into their 70s and 80s. The days of “til death do us part” likely being 10-20 years are long past, now we’re looking at 40, 50, 60, 70 years, and thus we have higher divorce rates.

        Again, do what’s best for you. If you think the costs and risks to you of dating/etc are too high, don’t do it. No one is forcing you to date. But there is absolutely no credible evidence that the relative microcosm (good word, by the way) of men taking your position can have anything like the effect you think it can have.

        • anti feministpig

          Terry.., I cannot speak for all mgtows, so i’ll simply state that if anything about me mirrored feminists or feminism in any way, shape, or form I would puke my guts out. True.., no one is forcing me to date but slowly but surely more and more men are realizing the dating game is rigged and marriage is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode in a man’s face Please don’t thank me for playing.., i’ve opted out and will encourage all other men to do the same

        • MGTOW GUY

          “How do you not get that MGTOWs are not merely similar to the separatist feminists
          (not all of whom are lesbians), they are EXACTLY the mirror image?
          The members of a gender so totally convinced of their ill treatment
          at the hands of the other side (real or imagined) that they decide
          they’re better off without the other side.”

          Because the difference is huge. Its like comparing apples to rocks. Sure they
          both can be round but come on. But I can see where your reasoning
          comes from though. Cell 16 was a heterosexual separatist feminism
          group advocating celibacy for a periods of time in relationships.
          They did so as a political strategy and helped to build the
          theoretical foundation for lesbian separatism. They literally were
          using sex and lack there of as a political move, as a weapon. MGTOW
          is a merely a movement of a cost/benefit analysis. Kinda like this,
          Am I going to get poisonous bite if I put my hand there? Most likely
          but there may be a gem there. No thanks.

          “Not all separatist feminists are lesbians any more than all MGTOWs are gay.”

          That’s hilarious because all today’s separatist feminists are lesbians. Give me one
          other truly heterosexual separatist feminism group out there right now. No really. Show me one. You are implying by comparison that most mgtows are gay. Buddy, mgtows are defiantly not seeking gay relationships not even as a political statement.

          “The separatists feminists are an organized movement, just as MGTOWs are.”

          MGTOWS are not an organized movement. Sorry to break it to you.

          “And the number of straight men and women who will not wish to live under those strictures, who will feel more compulsion to their biological urges than to their politics will always FAR outstrip the number willing to put their imperatives on the line for that particular principle…”

          And yet the later has more of a history of affecting change.

          “Again, the numbers simply are not sufficient. Young people of both genders are shying away from life long marriage, as they watch their parents generation go through marriage and divorce after marriage and divorce. It’s not a single gendered thing, it’s a recognition that they’re being asked to buy into a system that simply doesn’t work in an era where most people are living into their 70s and 80s. ”

          The difference is, men are far more affected negatively than women by marriage and divorce. So yes it is more of a singled gender thing.

          “The days of “til death do us part” likely being 10-20 years are long past, now we’re looking at 40, 50, 60, 70 years, and thus we have higher divorce rates.”

          That is both intellectually dishonest and compelling. They are number of factors that contribute to divorce and you are implying time is a primary factor. Thanks for pointing out all things end in time.

          “Again, do what’s best for you. If you think the costs and risks to you of dating/etc
          are too high, don’t do it. No one is forcing you to date. “

          We will do whats best for us, whats the point? Of course no one is forcing us to go on a date. But they sure love shaming us if we don’t.

          “But there is absolutely no credible evidence that the relative microcosm (good
          word, by the way) of men taking your position can have anything like
          the effect you think it can have.”

          You keep believing that.

        • Marius

          If MGTOW is not revenge on women
          If the MGTOW phenomena is a minority effect
          If women are more likely to want to stay single
          then why is this such a problem to you, please explain why you
          spend so much time trying to convince men of exactly what?

          So please answer this:

          1) I don’t get your point and why you are trying to prove here?

          2) If MGTOW is so insignificant to society, then don’t you have better
          things to do than come here and argue about issues that are minority
          insignificant issues, why is it so important to you that you would spend
          so much time here?

    • Carrie

      How did an intelligent, informed, patient response end up on this site???

      Congrats, and thank you for the sensible post. It’s like a fine bottle of Evamor after gargling dirt. Seriously.

    • Marius

      Terry, I agree with you in a big way. I am a MGTOW, 35 years old but I don’t see it as revenge or a political statement or even a movement, I see it as a phenomena where fewer men want to get married because of the changing gender environment. Hence I stay single out of my own free choice for a better life for myself, and I am thankful for my wisdom to do so. I don’t see how MGTOW can punish women or be cruel or even selfish. Its a personal lifestyle choice and that’s all it is. Relationships, marriage and kids are just not worth my while and its neither here nor there, that’s all it is about. But do understand that men who are angry at women for whatever will also gravitate to it, the way angry women gravitate to feminism.

      I do disagree that MGTOW is like separatist feminism because it does not have a manifesto as with feminism which is a group or movement with a manifesto organized into organizations. MGTOW is more like independence of women, its purely a phenomena and not a group or a movement itself, calling it a movement in my opinion due to the lacking assembly of a goal orientated organized structure makes it irrational in my opinion to call it a group as apposed to feminism. MGTOW is not even necessary apposing feminism as most MGTOWs are all for equal treatment, which the lack thereof inspire them to become MGTOW in the first place.

      The advantage of MGTOW, if it would have an impact on gender, is the fact that nobody can argue against it. Since there is no recognized manifesto or rule or organization that can solidly be argued against. Each guy decide for himself what MGTOW would mean for him and how he practice it. It is the same as independence of women there is no rule about it which one can argue against.

  • John D

    I wouldn’t call MGTOW revenge so much as its a logical reaction to how we as men are being treated. I keep hearing, “Where have all the good men gone?” Why won’t men ‘man up’?” Why should we? Why get into a relationship or get married when the deck is stacked against us? Why even interact with women unless we absolutely have to when women claim that such interaction is harassment and mild forms of rape? Its better to leave you ladies alone. I will keep my dignity, money and most if all my freedom thank you very much. Best thing about being MGTOW, I can come and go as I please.

    • coptic777

      Exactly. This “grand revenge” non sense is just that. What we are doing is completely logical and self preservation. Women are just not worth the risk for anything other than videotaped sex today.

      • Terry

        We didn’t start the idea of revenge, the author here did.

        If you want to opt out of relationships, great, more power to you. Go with it, I’m behind you 100%.

        But when you start asserting that you’re having an effect on anyone but yourself, you’re delusional.

        • coptic777

          Where am I claiming this take over of men? You are the delusional one if you are not noticing more men are opting & or have this “bitches aint shit but ho’s & tricks” attitude towards women. Especially the younger men in their 20’s. These types are rampant & do not call themselves MGTOW & do not need to however by their own wits are following a path MGTOW would not argue with. You act like I am claiming men are all of a sudden going to be a-sexual in a few yrs due to MGTOW. Your just making things up & injecting it into the debate. Typical feminist tactic…

        • http://www.facebook.com/observing.libertarian Observing Libertarian

          Hi, author here.

          “But when you start asserting that you’re having an effect on anyone but yourself, you’re delusional.” – than why do I see so many articles from women, women’s magazines and feminists *complaining* that men are refusing to get married? Apparently, we are having an effect.

          • Terry

            Because those articles move magazines. Cosmopolitan magazine has article after article on ways to spice up a marriage, ways that would never really work and I’m almost certain no one is really trying, but the idea sells magazines, and to look at the cover, you’d believe that there was a huge rash of women running out to buy enough saran wrap to wrap herself in when her husband comes home, or whatever crazy idea they had this month.

            When the number of men surveyed who express a wish to get married some day is higher than the number of women who express the same wish, in a survey done by a widely respected polling company, that seems to debunk the anecdotal evidence of what articles are in women’s magazines.

            There was a time when I used to read Maxim and FHM. There were a number of articles in those magazines that I enjoyed reading, in spite of the fact that I wasn’t really interested in the things that the articles would give the impression all men were after, if you were someone other than a man and looking to the magazines for clues.

            I think you’re reading more into anecdotal evidence than is actually there, and believing what you find because it fits a notion you desperately want to be true but simply is not.

          • meezus

            A lot of men just pump and dump women and dont bother with marriage. I guess thats a different form of going their own way.

          • Carrie

            Extremely true. As women are still accepting sex when they want, but without the concomitant relationship hassles.
            What have women begun to say about marriage? “Why buy the bull when the shit is free!”

          • Derfel the Mighty

            Only a woman would be actively seeking shit in the first place. The cow/milk phrase works because we drink milk…though I guess in that sense your little graphic works as well, since you’ve been eating shit all up and down this thread.

            Go brush your teeth and clean yourself up, men are talking. Enjoy your hoarded shit.

          • Carrie

            No, men here are not talking… they’re bullshitting… for free. I’ve given up my shovel however, so I’ll happily let the men you speak of continue defecating (or “talking” as you refer to it).
            Perhaps you’d have comprehended the meme better if I’d used “constant & no longer wanted” instead of “free”?

          • Hannah Carr

            Sexist remarks don’t help your cause, aren’t you just the same as feminism just the other side of the scale?

            “Go brush your teeth and clean yourself up, men are talking. Enjoy your hoarded shit”

            Go back to the factory and erm me some fucking money, the women are playing darling 😉

          • blackstarESP

            Hit the gym and lose some weight.

          • Hannah Carr

            Why would i need to do that? I would only do that if am trying to attract a shallow guy with a million quid for me to rob.

          • PythonGuy

            ” I would only do that if am trying to attract a shallow guy with a million quid for me to rob.”

            So you don’t care about your health and body appearance? There’s low self-esteem for you. I bet that’s men’s fault too, right?

          • Hannah Carr

            No, lol stop trying to project on me. of course i care about being healthy, i don’t need to go the gym if i don’t abuse my body in the first place with shit, but that has nothing to do with ‘looking good’ I’d love you to show me were I’ve blamed ‘men’. Don’t project your issues on me dude. I actually talked to some reasonable men here, some not so.

          • Justin

            Not buying it. :)

          • Mech Shop

            Maybe it should read,

            Why have a contract with the goose when the supply of golden eggs are already guaranteed.

          • Carrie

            Yeah… super catchy, lol.

          • Stephen Timmis

            Because you are already full of shit, and need someone to plough the fields

          • Morrison

            This is straight up brilliant.

          • Paul Kalogiannis

            Yes, just like women do in their 20s (best biological years) and expect to suck on men’s best years in their 30s and 40s when they hit 30.

          • Carrie

            Actual female here — I cannot remember the last time I read, saw, or even heard of such an article for women about a supposed dearth of marriage-willing men. In fact, I see/read/hear only of how to properly invest wages, stay safe while traveling [alone] abroad, not get scammed by contractors, and decide IF it’s worth it to date. Couple this with revelations about how dating sites have been lying about the number of females on their sites, claiming the female membership is MUCH higher than it actually is. (Why do you think men complain so much about getting zero responses from months of hitting up female’s accounts? It’s because those are faked accounts with no actual woman at the other end. Men outnumber women on LTR dating sites because men are actually looking for LTRs and women aren’t.)

            Until men started braying otherwise, everyone always thought MGTOW stood for Men Got Thrown Out by Women. Divorced men remarry at higher rates than divorced women; women learn a lesson, but men keep coming back for more. Marriage-dependent women went away once we were allowed to work and earn our own incomes, buy our own property and so on. Bastardism is not looked upon as the total end of the world anymore, so women don’t “need” marriage for kids. Alimony and child support are being awarded at lowest rates since ever, as women tend to earn too much to qualify for it. (If I get divorced, I would owe my HUSBAND alimony btw. Our incomes are that disparate.) Marriage-reliant women have been replaced with far fewer marriage-willing women, and even those are diminishing in number. Men — who still seek marriage MORE THAN WOMEN — have had to start paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get E-brides (modern day mail order brides) from impoverished countries, simply because American women do NOT benefit from marriage like they used to.

            If you think men’s actions are having an effect, you’d be better to realize that women are not noticing this supposed effect, as women went our own way a bit before men. The only actual effect is how nasty some men online are on the same sites that so-called MGTOWers visit. I dare say for men who claim not to care about dealing with women, they certainly do obsess over interacting with those awful creatures (women) ad infinitum. And women feel further justified in their choice to have opted out of marriage every time they get angrily trolled. Sorry.

          • Honey Badger Brigade

            “Actual female here” LOL!

          • Carrie

            Yes? Does that mean I get some trophy for being the first actual one to visit this site or something? If so, save the money and donate it to hungry inner city kids.

          • Honey Badger Brigade

            Keep going. I’d love a good laugh today! 😀

          • Carrie

            I could swing you a job at honey badger brigade… it doesn’t pay well, but you’ll never be at a loss for laughs reading their articles.

          • Honey Badger Brigade

            I can’t tell if you’re trolling or… you just don’t get it. Either way, please continue! It’s fantastic to watch.

          • Carrie

            I see. So before I swing you a job at honey badger brigade, I’d have to swing you a tutor to comprehend basic happenings in your vicinity first.

            Let me know your mother or father’s PayPal address (so I know where to send my bill), and I will get right on what you requested. Otherwise you’re going to have to just remain unable to tell what’s happening.

          • Honey Badger Brigade

            Do go on… What is it that I don’t understand Carrie? After all as the only female here you’re advantaged of a singularly authoritative perspective!

          • Carrie

            Mother or father’s PayPal address, then we can continue. Otherwise you’re just going to have to remain [self-admittedly] in the dark.

          • Marius

            Yes Carrie its all about the money hey…i think there is a future for MGTOW

          • Hannah Carr

            see that straight up bia’s !”Shit female lets not listen to anything she has to say and claim she think shes superior,,!” -_-

          • Steve Jones

            Ad Hominem attack 😉

          • MikeTO

            She is making some rational arguments. for example in South Korea men are going to poor Asian countries to get a bride. My own cousin who is divorced ended up finding a woman in China.

          • Don Frampton

            Why do some men feel the need to find a wife no matter what the cost?! It’s sad that some men and women feel that their lives are not complete until they are married yet most end up divorced and single again. I just don’t get it.

          • Steve Jones

            Guilt trip.

          • Paul Johnson

            Visit!? Do you even know what this site is? Do you know what honey badgers are?

          • Christopher

            I see why the West hates the Arab world. Because they have their “women” under control.

          • Carrie

            Don’t say the West hates the Arab world. Only gullible people believe what the media outlets feed them about other countries. Arabs are very decent people, despite what our loudmouth governments say about one another.

            Or did you mean that because men can rape women with wild abandon in Arab countries, they are better than the West? It’s not a rape in Arab countries UNLESS a handful of male-only witnesses report the incident as rape. Otherwise, a female can be held down, choked, raped quite against her will by as many participants who wish to join in, and she is now worthy of being stoned to death, because it is not “rape” unless enough men report it as such.

          • dkmeller

            Look on the bright side, m’dear…it certainly puts a limit on your false rape accusations in those countries, doesn’t it? At least you don’t have the indecent spectacle of men and boys going to jail, and having their lives ruined because a woman changed her mind regarding sex, or was trying to blackmail a guy, for spite and revenge, or-in most cases-for no reason at all!

            At any rate, when I see people, especially women, give the same consideration to the wreckage inflicted upon the innocent by false rape accusation as REAL rape cruelly inflicts upon real victims, maybe we should listen here. Until then???

          • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

            Around 2% of rape accusations are false. Rape reports can be higher, but keep in mind that reports do not necessarily name any specific assailant. “No assailant named” means “no innocent menz lives being affected”. Police also put false allegation claims for theft, burglary, and other crimes at similar or identical rates as those for rape. Poor menz, right?

            Wanna know who lies about rape at a 100% rate? RAPISTS!

          • Tim

            Lets just shoot everyone who is accused

          • dkmeller

            DEAL WITH IT…LOL!

          • dkmeller

            DEAL WITH IT…LOL!

          • dkmeller

            DEAL WITH IT…LOL!

          • Red

            USAF study sez 62% of rape accusations are false. FBI study sez 40% are false. Feminists liars say 2% are false. Who are we going to believe?!

          • MikeTO

            This is wrong it’s a lot higher than that. Nobody really knows for sure. However it can be high as 60% or low as 28%.

          • vetiarvi

            In my country, it’s around 50%. Even a female police officer admitted it was higher than 30%.

          • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            “Even a female police officer admitted […]”

            And the other 100,000 police officers “admit” that the number is closer to 2%. Again, you might easily be confusing reports with accusations, and they are not the same thing. Another thing rape-deniers enjoy doing is claiming that any rape report which does not end up in a rape conviction = a false
            allegation of rape; this is not the case.

            Many victims who file reports which the lazy officers view as too difficult to pursue are forced to recant their rape accusations or they are forced to pay fines for filing [what the police believe to be] a false report when the story was 100% true all along. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab23fe266caef70a1365a0e30f6ba9db71ec1d4b57cbd2c6926eb55e338efc38.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3c237b8d01701ec606e89d409f26e58f792498e426b6184b6d59f6e81f169fe8.png

          • MikeTO

            Actual god here. 😛

          • pandora delphy

            If you earn more than your husband then you should owe him alimony were you to divorce. Why should you benefit monetarily in any way from being married?

          • Carrie

            Correct, were we to divorce, I would likely owe him alimony. The courts however say that if the lesser-earning spouse makes a liveable wage, it is less likely to grant alimony to that spouse (and he makes quite enough on his own). But I’ve warned him, should we ever divorce, he’s straight up getting custody of ALL the children. Then he promises he’ll never try to leave!

            I don’t know what prompts the question as to why anyone should benefit monetarily in any way from being married though. Seems obvious that ALL married partners instantly should benefit monetarily from being married. Two living as cheaply as one, as they say.

          • Marius

            The Alimony law only still stick because women still mostly associate upwards financially when it gets to marriage (look for guys who earn more) and benefit from it, the day women pay more alimony than men, feminist will stop that law in a instant and call it discrimination.

          • Carrie

            Sorry, but facts dispute your position: the greater-earning spouse will owe the lesser-earning spouse alimony, except in cases where both spouses earn too much to qualify for it. If you want to see women not qualify for alimony, support their right to earn equal pay. ZING. A double-edged sword for MRAs — do I screw her out of alimony for all the years I kept her at home instead of working, or do I let her earn more money than I like to tell myself women should be allowed to? Tough, I know. Painful even.

            Women (at least feminists anyway) find alimony to be insulting and archaic, in fact it keeps ex-wives under the control of their ex-husbands. Feminists are NOT pro-alimony. Feminists once again prefer that women be able to earn equitable pay for their work, rather than be kept under the thumb of a man. Do not confuse gold diggers (whom dumb men choose to marry) with feminists (whom smart men choose to marry).

          • Marius

            1) I never considered MGTOW anti feminist, in a different post I explained how close the objectives may be, due to the demand for equality. So you didn’t prove me wrong on feminist stand on the issue There is no feminism vs MGTOW in theory

            2) Smart men dont marry at all

            3) you make reference to the fact that women are different, gold diggers vs feminist, bottom line is, all family courts are the same and inspired by one sided feminism, so its irrelevant if women are the same or not.

            4) its difficult to support a woman’s right to equal pay if women are not willing to do equal work, Men still occupy the most high risk work which pays more, resulting in 90% of work related deaths to be men, since women still associate upwards, looking for men who earn more and pay for dates and and spend double on Valentine gifts. Secondly men work on average17hrs a week more than women, so if she don’t want to work harder then I will not support you to get equal pay if she don’t want to do equal work. Equality in the work place is not just equal pay, its also equal women to die from dangerous work, equal women doing hard labor, men and women working equal hours. I dont ever hear feminist promoting that angle! However MGTOW would encourage women to work harder because there will be no guy paying her bills, so MGTOW is encouraging women to earn equal which adds a bit more pro-feminism to the scenario. Feminist wants women to be independent, now they can be double as independent as before. MGTOW will ensure that fewer women are dependent on men which is good. MGTOW also believe sisters can go do it for themselves. Its about men and women going their own separate ways, its inline with feminism, and with MGTOW so there is no problem.

            Feminism wont let men give their insights to the movement, MGTOW wont let women give their insights.

            Feminism dont give a F*** what men think, MGTOW dont give a F*** what women think. Its irrelevant.

          • Carrie

            It is clear that you think your points are valid, however, they fail on almost all fronts. If your understanding of the topic was not so remedial, I would be happy to continue showing you each place your reasoning is faulty. However, I cannot be certain if you really are this fooled by your beliefs or if you are just pulling my leg for laughs.

            You are building your logic from very faulty premises. You use “bitch” instead of “woman”. You claim that MGTOW is not blatantly misogynistic, when some of the most vocal and happy purveyors of MGTOW gleefully shout that they are 100% misogynistic and that MGTOW is vengeance against “man-hate”. LOL, speaking of which, you try to affiliate feminism with man-hate. (You lose all credibility points when you pull that old lie. It is equal to “Blacks just exist to raep/murder/rob white wimminz, so we should send them back to Africa”.)

            You have the spare time to post question after question to many posts here, and for that I am jealous. I don’t have that kind of time to waste, especially on being wrong. Heck, you even ran out of originality and started asking other posters the same set of pointless, entitled questions you ask me. Again, either your job offers you this much free time, or more likely, this is your job — saying nonsensical, false things for which there can be no response that will ever satisfy the false statements you make.

            I have avoided stepping into some other cow pies on this article’s responses, because they, too, lacked merit. I was happy to respond to a few of your uninformed points, but now that I see you are either trolling or simply obtuse, I bid you a good weekend. Get yourself educated about what feminism is. Hint: don’t ever get your “information” about feminism from proud anti-feminists again. It’s why you come off as uninformed as they sound. You wouldn’t get derive an intelligent opinion about the Joos from 1939’s 3rd Reich, so don’t do the equivalent here.

          • Marius

            you are really stupid you know that?

            MGTOW is men going their own way, guys being single. it has no manifesto that say hate women. MGTOW is a personal choice for every man of what he believe and what it means to him. its individualism. There is no common rule or manifesto of what MGTOW is or must be or defined as other than Men Going Their Own Way, Its all what is official about it. Nowhere is it stated as a principal, goal or identity that men must hate women although women are encouraging it big time by trolling around in discussion that don’t concern them. Its like saying a single guy hates women because there was a single guy who said bad things about women. really.. now suddenly single means hate. this is the point where I realize how incredibly stupid you are.

            You will not change my point or feeling about modern women any other than to reinforce it to prove what Modern Women are about. So do women a favor and dont ad fuel to the fire as i said before, you create the problem you are fighting against. If you want to go on topics that clearly don’t involve you as men are going their own way here, will earn you less respect than before you got here. You only reinforce MGTOW that’s all you are doing.

            You waste your own time writing pages of junk that makes no difference to anyone, I would also get bored if i was you.

          • Carrie

            No, I am not stupid actually — but yes, it is stupid of me to continue correcting you when you are wrong, as you are showing yourself to be wrong every time you communicate. The movement may not have an intelligible manifesto, however, the adherents do share very nasty, very abusive, very anti-woman beliefs. I would not try to stop these people from hating women, as if they did stop hating women, I suspect they would feel no more purpose in life. MGTOW are hating women (whether you admit or not) for reasons that do not exist much. Yes, sometimes a court will grant alimony to a wife with dependent children. SOMETIMES. And this is not feminism, it is making sure you pay for your own offspring. Just because a judge is also a woman does not mean she is allowed to make decisions that go against the patriarchal laws in existence that require a man pay for his property.

            As for the lesbian couple who conceived via a private party — sadly, even when the two lesbians DON’T WANT the sperm donor’s money/support, the government demands it anyway. The only way a sperm “donor” is any different from a husband is if the sperm recipients get their sperm from an IVF center. The cases I know of where one or both of the lesbian mothers lost a job and applied for welfare (rather than sue the donor), the government would not allow it; the government required the “father” to pay child support even though the women did not want ANYTHING further to do with that donor. Help feminists change the laws, so that men won’t be hurt like this again.

          • Marius

            Thats very good Carrie now off you go, go play outside or pull some boys hair or throw rocks at them or something

          • Steve Jones

            Men say no thanks. Man drought.

          • leolox

            “Feminists once again prefer that women be able to earn equitable pay for their work, rather than be kept under the thumb of a man.”

            You do realize that your survival depends entirely on men, right? That is, if men suddenly stopped working you probably wouldn’t last more than a week? I understand you’re a “strong independent wommin!” and all, but the whole survival thing is probably worth keeping in mind. Biting the hand that feeds you, etc.

          • Hannah Carr

            Oh course they would dear, just like men invented everything right of course they did hunny, now go read of book of laws before 1900 and educate yourself, so much for men being the ‘disposable sex’ ( Which for the survival of the human race is true) and i feed myself funnily enough, get a book learn how to slaughter, milk the cows! POWER TO THE BITCHES! -_-

          • Jason Picton

            Fuck the western bitches, we all marrying foreign asian women 😛

          • Carrie

            Of course I could never realize that, I haven’t been indoctrinated by raving morons. If “men suddenly stopped working”, then my commute would be shortened every day and night, my daughters would be safer at work, the unemployment offices could close down (because men stop working, women snatch those jobs right up, and men for some reason exist on air and porn?) — we could teach men to become agrarian (and useful) again.

            Oh, I see what you mean — if men suddenly stop working, then you would all have the time in the world to roam streets and pillage and murder? Yeah, I don’t like to think men are as one-dimensional as you like to. But hey, they make little pink guns for us “wommin” as you spell it, so we’ll finally be equalized by that great equalizer.

          • Tim

            /nods
            Now try that without the psychotic edge

          • MikeTO

            Now that was dumb. Who fixed our car? Who fixed your plumbing problems? Eighty per cent of men are programmers and only 20% of women. Construction is mostly men. Oil drillers are mostly men. Many men die on the jobs daily and you have the balls to say that?

            Even the internet is supported by male network engineers.

          • Christopher

            missing the point again. it’s not about hating women. they don’t hate women. they just understand the program. and people get highly upset, when you don’t go along with the program. if i choose to be single, and not be married, why is that a problem to most women. I am wealthy, healthy, happy, and fulfilled and don’t want to be anywhere near a long term relationship with a woman. I am not gay. I love having sex with women. other than that, after we are done, she can pursue her pursuits in life, and I will pursue mine.
            MGTOW men don’t hate women, they just love themselves first.

          • Carrie

            No. MGTOW DO hate women. They are not remotely shy about this fully agreed-upon fact either. Whereas I agree 100% with your premise at its face value, I also agree 100% with all of the great stuff in the Bible… but I know that in the real world application of the Bible, people get kidnapped, murdered, beheaded, imprisoned, and so on because of that very same Book that otherwise says such positive, uplifting things. All things start out beautifully in the concept stage; what they turn into may not always be so lovely.

            MGTOW would be a great, GREAT boon to society, IF those “M” would just freaking “GTOW”, but they do not. They obsess over women, they stalk women (again — without even trying to hide this fact), they seem unable to discuss things that do not focus solely ON women, ABOUT women, or how to HARM women (not even physically, but any harassment or harm, they are all about helping make it happen). At my airport, I saw some stuff plastered on the shuttle waiting areas. It was comics (forgive me if they’re not called that anymore). The comics were all anti-woman, angry shit, all begging for “men to kill off the cancer plaguing the western world that is woman”, and then showed the well-known site for MGTOW (who mind you, refuse to go their own way). It was asking for men to join the site, and their marketing was essentially “women are 100% bad, and in need of corrective ræp, so join our man-site and join the greater good”.

            If all MGTOW meant was “we are men who are not going to get married”, then damn, no one would even care, let alone notice you. But it has been turned into a hate movement with very real adherents suggesting very real felonies. You know that the modern day KayKayKay (trying to avoid censor) says they are all about white pride. But they plot to harm people, or at least its adherents do. I’d be A-OK with “I’m white and I’m great”. But not so much with the subtext of “I’m white and I am going to exterminate MY white Earth of non-white vermin”.

            Now then, do YOU get it?

          • Christopher

            Not a hate movement. As I stated, I don’t hate women, and all of my male friends don’t hate women. We just don’t allow women to manipulate us like they do the rest of men. I think that people who have enjoyed an unearned, unjust privilege for so long become defensive when that privilege becomes threatened or is about to become obsolete.

          • Carrie

            So you agree with feminism then! They too agree that the reason this whole Manosphere thing came about is because men are furious at losing the exclusivity to privilege that you’ve “built society with”.

            Ha ha, funny. The way you wrote was a little clumsy, as it almost could be misconstrued as women having had the privilege, lol, in which case feminism would never have been thought of in the first place.

          • MGTOW

            Carrie, why all the hostility? We’re just opting out, as we are free to do.

          • Joe Snyder

            What’s it matter? I myself wouldn’t go to what should be a “men only” site, if I were a woman, complain and argue hopelessly while quoting statistics without citing any sources that are against yours which do have sources cited. No matter how much you try to placate, assure or argue with “anyone” who is not going to listen anyway, WHY BOTHER? Here I am going MY own way, ciao.

          • MikeTO

            If you are then why are mgtows attacking women who happen to be antifeminists. Bellyofthebeast by several mgtows. Keymaster from mgtow.com attacked her too and she got so sick of it that she removed the video.

          • MikeTO

            Women do have a lot more privileged.

          • MikeTO

            Not a hate movement?

            Why MGTOW should not fear the SATF Smearhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68VKQOMgDh8

          • Take The Red Pill

            Women hate bachelors because they believe that a bachelor has “cheated” at least one woman out of a divorce.

          • MikeTO

            Duded MGTOW hate women with a passion. I used to go to the MGTOW forums for a little over 2 years.

          • Don Frampton

            Most men don’t hate women. A growing number of men simply don’t want a committed relationship with any woman. Not because we hate. It’s because we look at the numbers. We see other men that have tried the marriage or living together route and what has happened to these guys when the relationship ends. Guys are screwed. Even women will admit that guys get screwed over, they just won’t admit that it’s their fault either directly or in directly by not standing up for the men that they know, even if it’s family. Now that’s messed up!

          • MikeTO

            MGTOW was highjacked by barbar. Nowhere does the MGTOW manefesto says don’t marry.

          • Marius

            What part about I have no objection to feminism don’t you understand, are you that stupid, gee, it’s like communicating with a white wall. even my LED screen just popped up a blonde alert!!.. but its normal, so do you want to stop the process or continue… so I continue.

            Didn’t I explain to you that my problem is not with feminism (in theory at least) , its irrelevant. Its with women i have the problem with. But feminism is fueling women to be what they are, and its something I don’t want in my life, so I don’t see a point in discussing this with you any further. So take your misandric self and talk to someone who cares.

          • Steve Jones

            Ok ou fail because she says so Bwaaaahhhhhhhhh

            Feminism is by practical definition Misandry, who would want to marry into that, the big kick in the guts for feminists is they never actualy thought men would just say NO.

          • Hannah Carr

            actually your wrong the radical feminists (The ones that hate men) are cheering most of them are already political celibate to political lesbian ( which is homophobic as fuck)

          • Jason Picton

            Wow, so you get to decide who is right and who is wrong, what a complete fucktard you are.

            Homophobic is a made up term, it does not exist, just another example of leftist shaming language intended to silence dissent,

          • Hannah Carr

            Homophobia doesn’t exist, right. Ignorance is bliss.

          • Jason Picton

            Its a made up shaming term used for people who reject the notion homosexuality is normal or right, same as they label people who criticise Islam as Islamophobes.

            Atleast you learnt something today.

          • Hannah Carr

            Ignoring the Islam comment, cause that is opinion based, but homosexuality is natural and normal, anyone who’s studied science knows that, it is shown in over 200 species, have long term homosexual relationships, so is not disagreeing with it is irrational? I mean its not rational to deny nature.

          • Jason Picton

            Incorrect, homosexual behavior has been observed in nature, but behavior does not prove sexuality, this is a often quoted and often debunked claim of gays that it must be natural because the BEHAVIOR appears in nature, be it mistakedn mounting or dominance acts, but as I have successfully destroyed many gays logic to this end online, you can join that exclusive club.

            Now animals also display behaviors like cannibalsim, infanticide and incest aswell as pedophilia, do you contend that these are natural

            No, homosexuality is not natural nor is it innate. We are all born equiped as either male or female and biologically heterosexual. In fact homosexulaity is not an actual sexuality at all.

          • Take The Red Pill

            ALL women are feminists — until feminism doesn’t give them special advantages and unearned privileges anymore. Then they say they’re ‘not feminists’. (Just like the Nazis were ‘not Nazis’ after they lost the war.)

          • Take The Red Pill

            The feminists said that we men “think with our dicks” and “are led around by our dicks” for so long that they started believing their own propaganda. They got the shock of their lives when we men proved it wasn’t true when we started rejecting the ‘sh*t sandwich’ they had to offer and started Going Our Own Way instead.

          • Steve Jones

            “You feign ignorance of the Wage Gap…”

            Because a discrimination based Pay Gap is a myth.

          • the_mouse_

            Ah yes, the ol’ “You’re so wrong I don’t even have the time to explain why”. Well, it’s good enough that you FEEL right.

          • Max Wright

            “You feign ignorance of the Wage Gap, and would likely claim that it’s been debunked (Hint: it hasn’t).”

            Double hint: You’re wrong. See my links above. There is virtually no pay gap. As a supervisor myself, I can assure you that gender is never considered when wages are being determined, because of the Equal Pay Act of 1963.

          • Hannah Carr

            Ok am sorry, how long have men been working in hard jobs? Before feminism, When did ‘date paying’ for women begin, oh right before feminism, Saying men work more is ignoring the fact (which you guys love to do) that women raise the next generation disproportionately, well still working and doing the majority of housework, i could say men don’t ask to be fathers in courts, but we all no there’s a underlying discrimination why fathers aren’t asking for the time dont we and its defo not cause they cannot be arsed same reason you go to work more women stay at home more, Society tells you, you work and provide, and tells me (not literally) you raise children and be dependent on your husband, Like i don’t get MGTOW points, What do you want society 100 years ago? cause sounds like you would hate it? Feminism worked for women to work NOT MEN Feminism fought for women in the armed forces NOT MEN, You are the equivalent to radical feminism, separatism feminism, Not liberal feminism. And your right your the same as radical feminists, So have Fun. ILL yano stop being petty, and help defeat class-ism, sexism (both types) Racism and make the world a better place for people. BTW am not a feminist just think people need to understand a big difference in rad fems and lib fems.

          • Jason Picton

            Its simple, men will not be with women they do not like, plenty of better options overseas, women have far less options for this as they prefer to marry up financially.

          • Hannah Carr

            Women have amazing options overseas, are you joking have you ever been overseas with a woman, went Egypt got about 5 guys trying to pass there numbers on none of which are poor, (just because you think because of the sex organs in my body i must be driven by money right) Tbh mate women don’t care, well the majority more power to you mate!

          • Jason Picton

            LOL women are not marrying some poor shcmuck from Cairo. Yes Finance and Provider is STILL the number one concern for all women, no matter if they earn their own money.

            Western women have thier cats and feminism to warm their bed 😛

          • Hannah Carr

            Wow good to know you educated me on myself, that i apparently, didn’t no, why thanks you king i shall go back to me maid chambers now.

          • Hannah Carr

            actually my boyfriend warms mine. Only sometimes, will i make him fight with the cat for my viewing pleasure of who can join me in queen chambers :)

          • Jason Picton

            You can do whatever you like and men can too, and currently western ladies are being rejected and its their own fault, you are but one female and not the whole demographic, western men should not risk any woman in the west, due to the system they reside in, were brought up in and can quickly turn to once they are displeased with a man. :)

          • Hannah Carr

            The men of the west feel free to go marry/don’t marry who you want you don’t owe anybody time, or attention.

          • Jason Picton

            We are, and western women are seeing their marriage rates and life desires walking down the Isle with 4 foot 11 , 40 kg Asian cuties :)

          • Hannah Carr

            listen am going to leave this conversation, cause its childish, but Jason you do what you want, I don’t care if men don’t want to marry I don’t care if they don’t want children, some of the men here are great, one in the comments explained MGTOW in a nice a understanding way not ranting and raving about Asian women Women have sperm banks for children, and am pretty sure most now don’t ‘need men just as you don’t ‘need’ a woman so you have a nice life doing what you wanna do cause that’s your right, i.e I will eat dick preferably my boyfriends later :)

          • Jason Picton

            Good MGTOW does not concern you.

          • Hannah Carr

            My abortion does not concern you you freak, following my comments, yet I cant call that harassment? Next time I get pregnant ill ship it to u then since your so fucking concerned, aye jasson

          • Carrie

            You’ve come to a childish conversation website only to find out how childish the posters’ conversations get :)

            So did I, lol.

            If my actual kids ever got as childish as these fellows I think I’d drive them back to the attorney who handled the adoptions.

          • MGTOW

            Oh, we’re going our own way. We’re just spreading the word about it so other men discover MGTOW and blaze their own trails, too.

          • MikeTO

            I agree with that. LOL

          • Jason Picton

            This guys may want to fuck you, but they want the milk only not the cow who provides it 😛

          • Hannah Carr

            Is that like a genuine thing share a dick share a mind? WOW.

          • Jason Picton

            Wanting to shag you is not an indication of a man who wants to marry you 😛

            Plenty of women find that out the hard way.

          • Hannah Carr

            being sexual attracted is part of it. Biology 101

          • Jason Picton

            Dumping a load in a western woman does not equate to being attractive enough to warrant marriage, its attitude, as you display on here that has men rejecting western women.

          • Marius

            You may not call yourself a feminist but as all feminist, you put your own spin on it everything.
            1) We dont say women created the idea that men must pay for dates, it origionated because in the past women didnt work so it had to be the man who pay and show he could take care of her. But today women have the right to earn equal and still expect men to pay for the dates. thats entitlement! I tested it, of the last 5 dates I require she pay her way, all ended in catastrophe. she want to be modern, equal and earn the same and still expect the man to serve his traditional duties as provider as if she was a housewife 100years ago. That is double standards today and it is reinforced by women and their sense of entitlement, not men. Since women started working its a different situation now than then, But most women still demand it. Men want to be equal but women dont act the part of being equals in all aspects.

            2) Women do the majority of the house work because you still practice hypergamy, most women I know still want a man who earn more so that she can live a better life than what she earns. Women who earn more than me are mostly not interested. that leads to his career become more important and she move closer to the home and kids where things are more stimulating for her.That’s her choice and not his oppression, she can choose to do it differently today if she wish, she is under no obligation. So dont twist it like if the patriarchy is forcing this on women, thats crap.

            3) Women have 5 legal rights to abord parenthood if they choose too, men have no rights to abord parenthood. she have options, he have obligations. Women get the kids, men get the bills. that’s how it still is. Every second women’s rights issue reinforces that. I heard endless talk shows of feminists telling society how men are a danger for kids and how we can deal with imprisoning more deadbeat dads while ignoring dead beat moms and abusive women. They encourge this bias still all the time. saying things like “women abusing children are neglectable”

            4) Where in society does anyone today tell a woman to stay at home and look after children. what are you smoking. If a woman today at univeristy say to her friends she want to have children and get married she get mocked by feminists. I heard few women testifying for that, even Suzanne Venker said similar things. Anti-feminist women argue that feminsm today dont allow women decide for themselves anymore to be traditional anymore. So what part of society tells women that being at home whith kids is her job? did you get stuck in a time machine for 100years? still reading 100year outdated news papers? there is no insitiution, media or group other than some minority traditionalists advocating that. and MRAs and MGTOWs do not advocate any of that either.

            5) We dont want a society like 100 years ago, we want a gender equal society where all can be heard and have a freedom to speak without feminist twisting everything in favor of women under the name of gender equality. we hate the manipulation of information, selective sampling, we hate the way that any one who wants to add to the debate are smeared, protested again, vandalised, getting death threats for also wanting to add to the debate only because they dont agree with feminist methods and ideologies. I dont appreciate people being called misogynist and rape enthusiasts for saying false rape claims also destroy people lives. I also dont appreciate the way all the worngs of society is blamed on men. And how women are being favored to the disadvantages of boys which feminism claims does not exist. I dont like the discriminating posters and feminist slogans put up at universities. “Educate a man you educate a individual, educate a woman, you educate a nation”, i hate the media portraying men as dumb stupid and women as smart and sexy all the time. I dont respect that feminism say they are for equal rights but then turn around and say male rights is not a feminist issue and defend their discriminatory bias.

            6) Feminism fought for work for women to kick men out of the companies they helped building to make way for women, so that they can start over building their own businesses from scratch, only to be forced to employ more women and to be blamed for men being most directors of businesses, making the world a patriarchy while feminists still collectively vote for male presidents (Obama) because he represents feminism better than women (Hillary Clinton) only to call it a patriarchy again, because men are still in power and more male disempowerment strategies and laws can be imposed. I have my own business today because of discrimination against me based on gender as a man in my field and not because of privilege. There is no jobs in the pay bracket in my field that is not exclusive for women, because of affirmative action because women where never interested in these field so now she gets the job, and I dont, but we both studies equally hard. She gets the job, if I also want the money, i must start my own business, so I did and now that I make the money, she use it as proof of male privilege again because I earn more. There are funds to help female entrepreneurs in my country, nothing for men, I had to make it work on my own self. no free hand outs for me, i made it work but now it is turned again into patriarchy discriminating against women in the pay gap. I am sorry women got the jobs and was not forced to start their own businesses in order to earn the same. But i didnt make the rules, but dont blame me for being successful either.

            Feminism fought for women to go to army, optional and not forced on them by the state. feminism have never fought that women must be forcefully drafted into war the way men are. there is a major big difference. Army for women is a right, for men its an obligation. the argument on this is, women have not been discriminated against on these terms, but men have, women have it optional and men are forced. there is a major big difference.

            7) (thats not real feminism) The power of feminism is determent by all aspects of it supporters to the movement, each one who is counted and contribute forms part of the movement. Therefore radical feminists, Seperetist feminists, liberal feminist are all feminist, not one facet of feminism is more valid as the other, they all add up to one movement. just as your single facet cannot determine what feminism means, so can radicals not either, its the entire spectrum that defines feminism for all practical purposes and that include the radical and separatists. so stop enjoying the support of radicals and separatist, man haters and when it comes to definitions in liberal debates then cast them out as irrelevant, their numbers, money, books, research and articles are not irrelevant its as much of feminism as any other. Feminism is feminism as they enjoy the support of all their facets. we cannot say Methodists protostant church is the real Christiantiy the rest are not, they might think that, But all facets of christianty even catholics form Chritianty, no single facet can claim the definition on all others behalf.The same is with feminism, its the entire spectrum of your advocates and supporters whether you agree with them or not that makes the movement.

            Just as women have the right to be independent and live their own life as they please, with or without a man, so do men have that same right. MGTOW is men who live their own lives as they please without women or children, this is no different than the independence of women. So if you cannot respect the MGTOW philosophy, but support independence of women, you are a hypocrate as its much the same thing. just as a woman can say “i dont need a man” so can a man say “I dont need a woman” thats it! there is nothing more to it than that. both areas have their good and angry people.

            Marriage and children became dangerous territory for men, where they have little rights compared to women and little respect in being a husband or father, and if men choose to go their own way, it is their choice and informed decisions. its not for you to decide if its justified or make sense or not.

          • Hannah Carr

            1. I don’t give a shit if men go there own way, none owes anyone sex or attention, including men don’t owe women that, but the whole cause of your group, if am right (correct me if am wrong) is women don’t show you attention, at all, but that’s no a right and never has been.

            2. I am not a feminist, (don’t try an put me in a box to suit you) they see oppression on the axle of gender i see it on the axis of gender, race, class, sex orientation i fully 100% a man can be oppressed by a woman.

            3. You misunderstood what i said, MEN and WOMEN used to be put in there place although today those affects are ‘gone’ in sense, there still embedded in people men and women, so the sense of the big old ‘patriarchy’ which i don’t call it so don’t belittle me is still embedded. People still practice these acts, for example, me n my boyfriend have had the conversation of marriage (which helps a man massively with child rights well in the UK it does) i would feel really de-feminized if i purposed to him, which is awful, as you say, but is it just because am ‘entitled’ that i feel like this? or because society for 1000s of years has said that’s a mans place and not ‘girly’ so even as a very pro- women do shit yourself (including pay) i cannot help but feel wrong when i do certain things, like am 99% sure when i have children i will feel wrong when am in work, does that make me entitled or once again embedded stereotypes?

            4. Your assumption i support affirmative action now to get women in work is wrong back in the 60s i did of course, but now no, so there’s not much to argue about. But your use of words asin feminism voting for Obama, Not all women are feminists not all men are anti feminists, that’s were your assumptions are wrong, and you don’t think that a woman can be inherently sexist towards her own sex? Yes she can some of the worst sexist are women,

            5. To understand what your kind of championing against, you must understand different feminism stances as they are so far apart

            Lib Fems – Sex positive, porn/sex industry positive, believes in reforming the current system that stands, lib fem is about individualism empowering individual women ( mainly middle class white women)

            Radical Feminist – Think sex/porn/bdsm are harmful to women, and used to control women, they wont to abolish gender complety and the systems that come with it, along with being anti capitalists, they analyze from class i.e all males are oppressors all females are oppressed, ( i don’t believe this) They also strongly believe liberal feminism is male centered, and no man can be a feminist, and trans women are defo not women (to most rad fems) So there is a MASSIVE difference so you really do need to know.

            6. , 1.men are not drafted now (thank god) but i would have rallied against it anyway, but this is just roles, gender roles, men are strong women weak, and the history of the ;disposable sex’ plays into this DAVID Bentar in his book Second sexism (about men and boys) covers the mass reason men are sent in millions to die and women are not. I don’t believe anyone should be sent to war i will not fight for women to be forced in no but i will fight for men not be forced in 100%.

            7. I 100% Agree on sexist posters. rip erm down but at the same time don’t use phrases that group women together, your meant to be better then them aren’t you? I will never judge a male, on a class of males, i.e your date thing, you picking the wrong women sorry, most women i know wouldn’t dream of letting a man pay, want equal work and equal home time so the men get time with the kids and work abit less, because REAL women will do that, just a real men will there are dickheads, and bell-ends, and there a mix of men and women, your looking in the wrong places (but great if you don’t want to look a concentrate on yourself more power to you.

            8. “Where in society does anyone today tell a woman to stay at home and look after children. what are you smoking.” erm low paternity leave for dads massive indicator they think the woman should be at home, adverts all over the tv that show ‘ mum ‘ looking after kids, every picture of children is with mum, films, that show parents especially single mum as the ‘main carer’ massively, what world are you living in? We can agree to disagree tho and not insult each other. And the 1. reason if i split from my ex i would have a hard time letting my kids live with him, THIS IS FACT when to parents separate, if the dad has custody and the mum has every other weekend straight away its why? is she a bad mum? a drug addict? and when a man has every other weekend and the woman has full custody its oh that’s ok hes involved still, an you cannot deny this, this affects men massively ill admit. That hurts both sex’s but don’t pretend like it isn’t there just because someones not standing there saying that’s your place and yours. I mean it starts from day one what do we give little girls, dolls prams, kitchens, what do we give little boys? Cars, action figures , trucks, footballs, That ones just obvious

            9. Last of all i fully support, the right for a dad to paper abort, i.e no obligations, within a certain time, and as long as the woman tells him cause yes i am aware, women can be evil, but i will never support the right for a man to have a say in a abortion, but i will support the right like i said to paper abort, but i agree on that subject, the answer, ‘while you should of wore a condom’ is absurd and sexist, because it assume a woman having sex isn’t consenting to a child but a man is? No sex is never consent to have a child i agree,

          • Jason Picton

            Men going to asia will never be alone :)

          • Hannah Carr

            Feel free my friend, vist the Asia women best get there quick feminism is on its way over 😉

          • Jason Picton

            Nope, different culture, my wife and all the women I have ever been seriously involved with have been asian, western women despise and treat asian women like shit, angry they they are lonely cows themselves,so it naturally turns asian women against western women as in my wifes case.

          • Hannah Carr

            But on a serious not you not MGTOW then are you? because you just want pussy, but as long as it does what you say, so your not going your own way, or going for independent women, your doing the opposite

          • Jason Picton

            MGTOW is making your own decisions devoid of any social expectations, women in my country expect men to marry them not foreign, there is a huge backlash, as you are proving, against men NOT wanting local women, because for every man who refuses to marry a local shrill thats one western gal who will never marry, google Man Drought.

            Now western women have told me in no unvcertain terms in the last 25 years I have flaunted non-western women in their lonley faces that they are ANGRY about our freedom.

            Yeah we should just accept women who are not what we want, masculine, just because western women want kids ad all that once they hit 30 plus LOL.

            Try listening to Tom Leykis.

          • Hannah Carr

            Stop harassing me, good political lesbians, so easy to be selective grow up. The majorty of the population will still go on to marry, and have kids, even if they don’t marry they will still co-habit.

          • Jason Picton

            Oh so now replying is harassment, you are a typical feminist, playing the victim, if thats teh case stop harassing MGTOWs on here yourself.

            Asian women rule :)

          • Jason Picton

            No the feminists are already making co-habitating exactly teh same as marriage under the laws that strip men of their assets.

            Men are leaving the plantation and western women are in the hurt locker.

          • Jason Picton

            My wife is that independent she rejects you and feminism.

            You are a feminist troll and easily exposed.

            Bute back soon.

          • Hannah Carr

            for one am not even a feminist you loon, following my comments round, come of this site and live life abit mate may help. Cause I don’t belive in bigotry, lumping one set of people into a box doesn’t make me a feminist makes you a bigot. Not all men are rapist’s to me I love men there great, you on the other hand have problems, I can give you some helpline numbers if you wish?

          • Jason Picton

            You are feminist, eat a dick hahahahaaaaa

          • Jason Picton

            Yeah because I don’t want an evil man hating domineering western female I must want a Yes Woman LOL.

            RAH RAH Rhetoric.

            Heard it all before.

          • Jason Picton

            See all I had to say was I reject western women and they lose their self entitled minds 😛

          • Hannah Carr

            mate many ‘western’women (you don’t know were am from) don’t give a shit were you go, :) none is entitled to attention or time from someone including you.

          • Jason Picton

            You care, suck shit, we are rubbing your faces in it.

          • Carrie

            You seem really desperate to convince people you believe the nonsense you spout. Not only do you want to convince people you believe the shit you’re saying, but you want to sound all butch about it, lol: WE ARE RUBBING YOUR FACES IN IT, WAHHHH, MOMMY GET ME A KLEENEX!

            Telling women whose lives you’re not affecting that you are affecting their lives… there’s got to be a name for that psychiatric delusion. Pictionopathy?

          • MGTOW

            Women don’t want men. They’ve been saying that for decades.

            Now men decide they don’t want women either, and now all of the sudden everybody gets upset. You’re angry that men are taking ownership of their own lives and making the same choices for themselves that women have been making for decades.

            Deal with it. It’s the new normal. MGTOW is here to stay. :)

          • Jason Picton

            Note the only thing I mentioned was the race of the women and this shrill automatically equates asain women = submissive. (but as long as it does what you say), we can see who the bigot and sexist really is 😛

          • Marius

            1)
            Ok MGTOW, may mean different things to different
            people, I don’t see it as a group and don’t always agree with people
            interpreting it as “boycott of women” it makes it looks like a militant agenda
            which it’s not. Perhaps for some, but for most guys I can’t see that it holds
            universal truth. One thing that is universal about it is, that it is a phenomena
            and not so much a group. Due to the association common interests people do form
            groups, but MGTOW itself is not a group. It’s a philosophy not to be dragged into
            the constraints and expectations of society. Much like women’s independence. MGTOW fundamentally only would choose not to
            marry and have children because of the way divorce and family courts and the
            general value and role of men in families are negatively impacting men, so many
            guys do the maths and see they are better of single. They often start grouping
            under the label MGTOW to discuss matters that relates to their lifestyle. It’s not
            like a movement to overthrow government or to kill feminists or anything like
            that. It’s just a independence phenomenon as a result of a new world we live
            in. Even calling it a boycott is not really correct, it’s not even necessarily
            anti-feminist either, however feminist critics here are rife. It’s just some who associate with it, call
            themselves anti-feminist due to their differences. For example many feminists
            sites smear MGTOW as misogynists as MRAs often smear feminists as misandrists
            because they blame each other for various things, which I call “factual
            critique” because men and women do see and experience the world through
            different eyes. But MGTOW itself imply nothing about antifeminism in theory.

            2)
            I agree discrimination goes both ways, I don’t support
            any of it, not even MGTOW guys who often express hate to women. I understand
            anger and frustration but that is different. Like once i got a guy in MGTOW group who
            argued with a woman and ended up saying “I wish you would die” I got so angry
            and started fighting with him saying “no matter how angry you are, she is still
            a human and wishing anyone dead is fucked up” and it ended in a long argument
            that later eased off. This will often happen. People get angry but, being
            hateful to that point is never good not for feminist, MGTOW, or MRAs.

            3)
            Proposing to your boyfriend is not bad, many
            women do, I think it is totally normal. Just take in consideration men might be
            hard to convince that it is the right thing for him. Same reason some guys go
            full MGTOW, most men even if not MGTOW feel some part of the pressure. Like
            even women who are not feminists, worry about rape. These issues seems to
            affect every one whether you are under the label or not. But a man needs to
            feel secure today, Its not like in the old days where he is born with it,
            thereby assume he needs to make the woman feel secure while he automatically
            have it because he is the man, is not realistic anymore. It’s not the same
            anymore, men became aware of the risks, because there are more risks and they
            have less power to control it. Many guys goes MGTOW because they don’t have
            answers or solutions to these problems, as love and contracts don’t seem to
            solve or guarantee any solution. So they
            see a dead end. Many guys see the same but they still want love and have relationships
            but don’t want to enter “dangerous’ territory.
            Many guys learned by experience that women’s assurances and promises don’t
            guarantee anything either. So its is really a difficult one to solve. I believe that if you want to negotiate successfully
            you need to put yourself in the other persons shoes. But for men and women to
            put themselves in each other’s shoes and see the world like they see and experience
            it, is very difficult. Hence we have the gender problems we have today. Neither
            men nor women act irrationally, for the opposite sex it only appears like they
            are irrational.

            4)
            Feminists have concluded in their communities to
            vote for Obama as he represent feminism better than Hillary Clinton. The reason
            I mentioned it is because Feminist say men are in power still, so it is “a
            patriarchy” that must be opposed. Yet they themselves vote for the men to be in
            power. Its like they help to create the stawman they fight against while the
            stawman is in their side. But while they do it, affirmative action is instated
            against men, as if I am the oppressor. This is just some of the reasons why
            feminists piss me off. But I did acknowledge that you are not a feminist. I
            only said that you have your own spin on it. As I mentioned in #3 that men and
            women see the world differently. I cannot see where I suggested Women =
            feminism, or only women can be sexist to men. That seems out of context. That
            section was about, society does not expect women to be in the kitchen and at
            home anymore, if you do it is your own choice. But men and women have their own
            spin on reality, however the spin of feminism resonates well with the spin
            women put on their views of the world. That’s what feminism is for.

            5)
            I am very well aware of the different factions
            of feminism and there are more than that, like gender feminism and equity
            feminism and more. What I said was, it does not matter that you have different feminisms,
            feminism represent the feminism which supports and empower them, Feminism is a
            spectrum of factions of feminism, not one single factions define them, not lib,
            nor radicals. But feminism is the total of them all. The fact that there are
            deviations within does not mean that any faction have the monopoly on defining the
            total movement. All factions have a participation quota to the entire movement.
            Thus radicals are as relevant to feminism as liberals. We cannot define
            feminism only by its liberals.

            6)
            Cool I
            get that one

            7)
            Ok fair enough, it depends on which country,
            some do, some don’t draft men. I also did nt say feminism cause it. I argue feminists,
            when they emply that it was a privilege men had at the expense of women by
            discriminating against women. Most guys did not enjoy the risk of dying and be drilled
            as much as being at home. So we don’t blame feminism for it, we argue the
            perspective feminism use try to describe that situation. As if it is meant to
            be gendered against women to oppress and discriminate against women to benefit
            men, while men in fact suffered by it. But I do agree with your position on it.
            I am very opposed to war as it only serves the powers and not the people.

            8)
            Look maternity leave cause women to make
            sacrifices, but you still decide to get pregnant didn’t you? Now me saying that will not only get feminists
            angry, but also make most women angry. But let me explain. I identified that in
            today’s world, for a man, getting married with a woman who earns less, will
            hold me back as my money is mine and hers. Making children will hold me back,
            not only for the parental responsibilities it takes, but also for the costs of
            raising them, and not just the cost of raising them. .. But after divorce the
            court will try to take as much as they can get from my income to give to the
            mother and child. The reason I say mother and child and not just child is
            because most often if a man earns good, they make him pay more than the child
            uses, and the mother is in control of that money. So I decided in order to make
            the most of my career, I need to GIVE UP MY RIGHT FOR LOVE, FAMILY AND CHILDREN
            in order to have the best career
            position. My sister did the same, she
            did not have children because it will impact negatively on her career. Both of
            us had to sacrifice our reproductive rights to make the best of our careers and
            to use it to its full potential. So the fact that you must choose , children
            and compromised career, or no children and best career options. Is a choice
            both men and women are required to make. Neither men not women have their bread
            buttered in both sided. But women do have 5 options to abort child responsibilities
            which men don’t have. So I need to go back the fact that if you choose to have
            children and compromise your career it is your decision. I had to give up my right to family and
            children for a better career, I don’t think women with their options to abort,
            have worse options. But just to add, feminists have been fighting for paternity
            leave an I think it applies in USA already so that women don’t need to be in a
            disadvantage passion with maternity leave. But have not made any changes in men’s
            options when it gets to child support
            and alimony

            9)
            I feel when it gets to pregnancy a father must
            be able to make his position clear in advance or early to have the right to
            abort, so that the woman can use her reproductive rights such as abortion or
            morning after pill to make a informed decision if she choose to abort. I do not
            believe a man’s position should force abortion or prevent it. But I believe it
            would be great if a man can have the choice to opt out and then she can decide
            if she would want to keep it and provide for it or if she will also abort it if
            it means she will not have the support of the father. That way both can have
            the right to opt out, I also believe that ex-wives should not be entitled to
            alimony unless it is part of the agreement where both man and woman agree that
            she will be a stay at home mom and he would in return always support her. Then the gender pay gap will also have make
            correction for it which it is not doing now. Alimony should not be the default
            contract. With these ideals in place I would be much more inclined to marry and
            pursue love, or even children. But at this stage, its not an option for me. But
            as it is now a man and woman in my country can come to such an agreement, but
            then the court will rejects it because children and women comes first.

            10)
            The problem with these discussions are, that we
            live in different countries, in different cultures and legal systems. Like
            feminists here and there might not even be the same thing. So I keep an open
            mind that at times people online will misunderstand each other in communication.
            But as much as we may agree or differ, I admire your interests. Like I would
            get all angry about a feminist topic, but then I go on a feminist website throw
            the rock in the pond and end up getting a good or better understanding when
            they explain and make things clear, Then I may realize on that issue, they are
            not as irrational as I thought and learn something about women in the process.

            11)
            Often we learn from the opposite side of the
            fence. Today a female friend I chat with
            asked me, “why can’t all men be as understanding as you” I wonder for a second,
            how ironic, I am a MRA, the ones who are deemed as misogynists. It was based on
            a topic she and most women struggle with about guys who just want sex. Somehow
            she feel I understands her problems with it in ways most guys don’t. So I explained that even as a MRA, In the last
            15 years, I have learned so many things about gender and women, even though I don’t
            agree with feminists all the time, and even though I stand by my believes and
            MRAs. A guy pick up a lot on the other side of the fence and it broadens the
            understanding.

            12)
            The same place I learn that feminists was voting
            for Obama to support my arguments about feminism, is the same place I also see
            what a female rape victim goes through when nobody believes her, the shame, the
            social problems and the system, being a victim and feels like a they look at
            you as the instigator. I read these
            things and it touches you. But as MRA I will still right a piece on what a man
            goes through when falsely accused of rape and his life destroyed when his
            family is shamed by him, other guys attack him, people calling police on him if
            he is near, women walk circles around him, all his friends gossip and have a
            chance to end up in prison and get raped there and its only him who knows he didn’t
            do it.

            13)
            But still I have read the part of what happens
            when a woman is raped and nobody believes her and that I also learned in the
            process, it’s just that I won’t be writing much about it, feminists do that.
            But I still understand it and took the time to read about it and as a MRA, I do
            know something about it, perhaps more than most guys do.

            14)
            The same goes for you, you can come here, argue
            fight about things, learn few things, agree on a few things. but all the same,
            you learn new things, perspectives and even if you don’t agree with all, you
            will walk away knowing more about MGTOW and MRAs and men than yesterday and that may lead you
            to know more than what most women know.

            15)
            Therefore I am inclined to think that MRAs have
            a better chance to understand feminism than what most average guys do, even if
            we don’t agree on everything, we get exposed to the content. There are many MRA/Feminism common
            denominators and many similar things we experience from each other, but mostly
            we end up focusing on our differences, as that’s where the big unsolved issues
            lie. But because both feminism and MRAs mostly do act rationally in terms of their
            perspectives of their viewpoints in society, feminists have many male
            supporters and MRAs have many female supporters. It’s not a black and white
            thing. Our greatest challenges lies on finding common grounds where we can
            develop solutions which would work for both. Often men in feminism and women in
            MRAs help to communicate to the opposite sex and to help guide the movements in
            rational ways. But in the meanwhile we must face the criticism of our
            differences, and allow men to use the freedom of choices as with women to be
            free from the constraints of culture, feminism and tradition, until these
            problems can be resolved in ways that work and is fair for both. As a MRA I believe
            that feminism alone cannot do that, as it is mostly single sided perspective on
            gender as mostly with MRAs as well. While both have prospective benefits for
            men and women, we will have to deal with issues still for a very long time. But
            there will necessarily be anger and misunderstandings till then

          • Hannah Carr

            Tbh I agree with most of what you say so that’s great, and we can agree to disagree on certain issues, :)

          • Marius

            If I may ask? what is it you are really curious about? Is it particularly MGTOW or men’s issues? These two aspects might be very different. MGTOW is not inherently radical, but when it gets to comment sections, they attract all types and all kinds at the most radical level. Then you will get this equivalent of radical separatist feminist’s scenario. This is not particularly female friendly territory. But if this is particularly what you are interested in then good. But if you are more interested in mens issues as such, I dont think this is the best place to start. If you are interested in mens issues which is more rational, studied and female friendly then let me know, I can give you a few good pointers, if that is what you are after?

          • Hannah Carr

            tbh yes, I am more concerned with fathers issues as my boyfriend has had trouble with his son, and after being through the family court system with him I understand the complete dismissal of fathers, and don’t just think its wrong but rather sick. I understand some men in MGTOW have also had very bad experiences, but both really I am as interested in men’s issues as women’s issues, and what MGTOW stand for. I would be interested in good books if you no any, I have read David Bentar, second sexism, but that’s it on the male side.

          • Marius

            Great, Well I found that in the area of MGTOW kind of behavior, for example why men dont marry, Dr Helen Smith have a good book, “Men on strike” why men are opting out and a rational perspective.

            Dr Helen Smith is a big voice for MRA and a Dr in psychology

            Then on gender in a broader sense is Dr Warren Farrell, He is a Dr in social science. He served for 3 years as the chairman of the NOW National organization for women, the biggest feminist organization for women. Back in the first wave he was one of the biggest feminist voices to speak out for women. Although he never stopped believing in equal rights the way he have always have as a feminist, He became a MRA because he started to see a big problem in where things are going. with mens rights, fathers rights and children.

            His books will also be from a “mens rights” perspective and not as much balanced between male and female as you put it. I think most books, feminist or MRA books will have a perspective from either the male or female and hardly both.

            Dr Warren Farrell for example say things like “in the battle of the sexes, if any sex win, both will loose” he is very factual and a “gentle man” in his approach to gender and probably very female friendly in that regard. he wrote books which I bought myself “The Myth of Male Power” “Why men are the way they are” “Women cannot hear what men dont say” “Father and child reunion” he wrote 8 books

            He is married, his wife is a business woman and she support him though his work a lot. I feel he represents MRAs very good from a mens perspective but for equality between the sexes.

            The link below is a speech of Warren Farrell on pay-gap

            This is how feminist responded to the idea that he will give his speech, the reason i post this is, it kind of explain why there is so much friction between the two groups

            Here is he in the first International Conference on Mens Issues 2014

            I also recommend listening to some of the women in the Mens Rights Movement, I think women communicate messages easier to other women.

            Here is Dr Tara Palmatier, she is a Dr in psychology and big voice in MRAs

            Erin Pizzey, she created the first women shelters in UK and Canada, and is a big voice in the MRA today

            Anne Cool, Senator in Canada, also a big voice for MRAs

            Barbara Kay

            Karen Straughan – one of the biggest online voices for men also associated with the Honey Badger Brigade (This site)

            I recommend other stuff from Karen Straughan

            Men not marrying? How deep does “the problem” go?
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlvMAS_20K4

            Speech in university in Detroit

            I recommend her you tube, it gives a lot of perspective on the modern gender from MRA perspective

            There are women within the feminist movement, such as Christina Hoff Summors who are often wrongly associated to the MRAs, she is actually a feminist who is a feminist critic. she wrote the book “who stole feminism” and “the war against boys – how misguided policies are harming young men”

            But please mind the comment sections, as you know it attracts all kinds of people from those who are serious to a bunch of trolls. I feel your interest will be better served by MRAs than MGTOWs the reason is because MGTOW is not a movement with leaders and particular objective for society, MGTOW is just the men who are opting out as a result of the problems.

            Feel free to ask me if you need more input from my side.

          • Hannah Carr

            Thanks ill have a good look through :)

          • Marius

            Great, please note I have changed two videos, I added a link on feminist protest against Dr Warren Farrell and changed Karen Straughan video at Detroit which I by accidentally added the Sandman version in there instead of the actual one I was referring too.

          • Hannah Carr

            Yeah I saw that protest before, thought the women were vile disgusting, people, and totally abusive to the men, but thanks anyway for being helpful, and kind :)

          • Eric Korbly

            These guys aren’t doing this MIGTOW thing because women won’t give them attention they’re choosing to live without women because of their personal & shared experiences with them. They’ve gotten attention & it wasn’t fun. They’re usually not angry it’s more like fed up & over it.

            From my perspective most married men I know are miserable. They are all manipulated & lied to. They are all on a short leash. The single guys I know are mostly happy.
            I’d advise every man on Earth to avoid local civil court ebtanglements as a top priority. Never marry, no kids. Keep insanity out of your life.

          • Jason Picton

            She is a feminist for sure 😉

          • knifemare69

            Feminism was a banker-created, corporate ideology that benefits big business by doubling the available number or workers in the marketplace which allows corporations to pay *half* the wages they paid previously.

            Feminism is also promoted by government because it is a convenient legal excuse to create more victimless crimes in order to raise revenue for the state. Plus – all that domestic work that women substituted for corporate careers is now *taxable* whereas previously the government couldn’t get their greedy mitts on it.

            You do know what the mix of state and corporate power is, don’t you? That’s right – Mussolini called it fascism. Which is the ultimate goal of feminism in the first place, where an all-powerful state can punish and financially enslave anyone whom its protected, privileged classes are offended by.

          • MikeTO

            Dumb men don’t know how to find the right woman. Smart man finds the right woman by a selective process. Keep your dick in your pants and start thinking with your big brain.

          • Steve Jones

            Women already get equal pay when they do equal work, one minute you the 77 cents in the dollar brigade, next minute you are doing better with the Hannah Rosin Jewish shrill brigade, so which is it?

          • Steve Jones

            Shaming language, so she says if you want to be called a smart man marry a feminist LOL, your shaming language is pointless and so obviously designed to achieve what YOU want not what a man wants. I will pass, no wonder we are starting to marry foreign women in droves.

          • Steve Jones

            “Feminists once again prefer that women be able to earn equitable pay for their work, rather than be kept under the thumb of a man.”

            They alreday do.

          • http://www.brotheryellow.com David Jonsson

            “kept her at home” and “kept under the thumb of a man.” is this how you judge mothers? as unwilling slaves? typical feminist

          • http://www.brotheryellow.com David Jonsson

            “kept her at home” and “kept under the thumb of a man” is typical disrespectful #feminist view of housewives and mothers as unwilling slaves

          • alex brown3

            Women have a right to equal pay.

            The pay gap was debunked years ago.

          • Carrie

            Actually… the “debunking of the pay gap myth” was debunked years ago. And it continues to be debunked: http://feministcurrent.com/10918/all-your-wage-gap-questions-answered/

            Now, this is exactly the type of easy work you could have researched yourself in seconds, but instead you needed it done for you. First one was free; if you need more assistance on the absolute most basic Internet search efforts, I’ll not be so generous. Each subsequent search done on your behalf will mean you send me your PayPal address first so I know where to send the bill(s). Maybe you work for free, but that doesn’t mean everyone else does.

          • alex brown3

            A feminist link? lolol

            Women get paid slightly more than men for the same work. Women have privileged access to the job market.

            Women get paid less because they use romantic access to enforce gender roles. That means they are able to get men to support them.That means women work less hours, so they get paid less. The gap is an hours worked gap

            That means women work less.

            Women getting earning less, and you assuming their is a conspiracy at work, is a sign of paranoia.

            You link is pure bunk and garbage. It jumps about randomly. and falsely frames the questions.

            I love your condensation of me, acting like your junk link is good research.

            Women have social dominance of the work place, men get fired for making dongle jokes, this is a female dominated society, only mentally ill paranoid feminists believe in conspiracies to pay women less.

          • Carrie

            Hey, you knock it because it’s “a feminist link”? Yeah, forgive me for not using any of the many, many links from AVfM on the topic of women not being treated fairly (that happened to be sarcasm, but I strongly sense you needed to have that pointed out since you are of the IQ that believes there is no real pay gap). You’re probably a little more prone to gobbling down anything on the anti-feminist links though, amirite, amirite?

            You don’t have to like the truth, you don’t even have to believe the truth. You do however have to live on a planet where truth opposes your tired false beliefs. And you don’t need to like that either!

          • alex brown3

            I read the link, full of fail. stuff like Apex Fallacy etc…

            You are just repeating the same debunked feminist junk.

            Anti Semites never stop banging on about the protocols of the Zion of elders even though it has been debunked by the times in the 1920’s. The wage gap is gender hate that won’t die, it has been debunked a million times.

          • Carrie

            It has not been intelligently debunked so much as once. It’s very fun to believe all voices that support confirmation bias however, so at least that can keep you warm at night.

            As I said, you don’t need to believe it or like it, but you cannot escape its reality. You sound hung up on gender hate, and hating anyone is no way to live. The only good thing about hate is that it kills its victims off at an earlier age. If you’re OK with that, then it is 100% your right to continue that way. Just as you cannot change the wage gap’s reality, I cannot change your desire to hate and point fingers.

            Have a nice Sunday! {No sarcasm this time.} Life’s too incredible to waste it away online.

          • alex brown3

            You compare like to like women get paid from 97% to 107% of a man. Paygap debunked.

            Women have social dominance you have to be insane to think women can be intentionally paid less than men for the same job.

            A feminist is accusing me of gender hate? lolol You are a mentally ill feminist, you world view is that men have been oppressing and abusing women from the dawn of time, men are a sex who worship and adore women, women are the sex who hate men, feminism is just female projection of their own hate onto men.

            Women have an ingroup bias men do not.

            There is no paygap, if you compare like to like women get paid slightly more than men. Women have more privileged access to the job market than men, women control the gender roles and use them to their advantage. Even if women were getting paid less it would not be an injustice, as women live of men. Women pick and choose the gender roles they want to play, men do not have that power.

            Feminism is a mental health disorder.

          • Carrie

            OK, mea culpa for not seeing it right away — but you are batshit insane if you believe so much as 1/100th of what you claim to believe.

            Have a nice day, you’re right about everything, no need to go on some killing spree over your totally non-delusional beliefs, *backing away gracefully with arms protecting children and other innocent bystanders*.

          • alex brown3

            Why did you bring up a killing spree? Are you trying to create a false threat narrative.

            Also using children as a prop in your lies,and threat narrative is disgusting. Women are the sex that kill the most children.

            You are a disgusting man hating disingenuous violent woman.

          • Carrie

            Not one thing you have accused me of is correct. You are letting the batshits whisper into your delusional mind, and you’re not filtering out the crazy before you engage your keyboard.

            Also, for every woman/girl who has gone on a killing spree that killed children, I can name twenty men/boys who have spree-killed more children. See? That batshittery of yours does not hold water. Women are not the sex that kill most children, and even if in some alternate universe that were true, it has no bearing on anything here.

          • alex brown3

            You just accused me of wanting to go on a killing spree, then you are accusing me of being crazy bringing it up.

            Are you so mentally insane that you can’t help yourself?

            Women are the sex that murder their children the most, even step fathers pose less of a risk to their children than their biological mothers.

          • Carrie

            Only in the magical, delusional minds of the Manosphere victims do mothers kill their children more than fathers. I’ll believe the FBI before believing someone who has not been correct even once yet.

            How long are you going to make everyone wait for the stats to support your lie of Women are the sex that kill the most children? Because that’s what you claimed after all. Oh, I have FBI stats that prove men & boys kill children (and adults, and pets, and… well, everything else) more than women & girls do. As for parents, go look up “filicide statistics”, and you will see that once again, the FBI disagrees with the Manosphere about that.

          • Max Wright

            “Only in the magical, delusional minds of the Manosphere victims do mothers kill their children more than fathers.” <— totally wrong.

            A simple google search shows that 71% of all children killed by one parent are killed by their mothers.

            I tried your "filicide statistics" and got a good laugh. That's a biased report. It states, "Men were much more likely to use guns than women." Nowhere does it mention that women are far more likely to use drowning than men.

            It also deftly dodges the statistic I pointed out above. Here is the data you seem to be unaware of:

            http://www.breakingthescience.org/SimplifiedDataFromDHHS.php

          • Hannah Carr

            Thats because mothers look after there children more then fathers if men had custody as much as women, the tables will turn mate, that’s already been said by all child abuse charity’s, the reason the levels of abuse is so high with mothers is cause mothers have there children FAR more, so it actually equals it self out, that’s common sense. And that’s not true a step father whos around his children pose more risk to the children then mothers, they have to be around the child equally i.e live with the mother,

          • Max Wright

            as in Casey Anthony???

            So its understandable that crazy stupid selfish women get pregnant and forget to have an abortion before they realize they don’t want the kid. They ditch the guy and take the kid from him so now they are “burdened” and then they snap and drown the kid.

            But hey, that’s all just common sense, and not really their fault. If things were different, men would do the same thing…. mate….

          • Hannah Carr

            Wow twisting words but your not to good at it. If mothers care for the children more it is common sense, that they would have the highest abuse rates for there children, like if 80% of the world was Chinese it would be understandable that most crimes would be committed by Chinese. That’s just logic, now do i agree with the family court system? No its sexist as hell against men. Do i agree with men who never wanted to be fathers being forced to pay? No that’s wrong men need to have the same freedom as women.

            When did i say it wasn’t there fault? It is 100% there fault, and child abusers should be imprisoned men or women.

            If men had custody of there kids primary the abuse rates would change that’s just fact.

            Don’t put words into my mouth and come forward with a logical argument.

          • MGTOW

            Actually, statistics do show that a child’s own mother is the person most likely to abuse, neglect or kill said child. Another reason to stay MGTOW.

          • Max Wright

            When it comes to killing their OWN children women do it a lot more than men. 71% of children killed by one parent are killed by their mothers. Only 29% are killed by their fathers. And, of course, those numbers don’t take abortion into account.

            So yeah, protect the babies……… cause you are a woman….. and stuff

          • Hannah Carr

            Well i’ll let the scientist know your happy to be the first man, to have a womb transferred and to carry most unwanted children for you to have to yourself.

            Ill also get from that you agree with consent to sex is consent to pregnancy for men? Of course. I.E being on the hook for child support for 18 years ? (which i don’t agree with funnily enough)

          • Max Wright

            As I’ve been pointing out, the “pay gap” doesn’t indicate gender discrimination. That sort of discrimination is practically impossible in most large companies. The pay gap, if it exists at all, is caused by the fact that woman apparently don’t perform as well as men. Less pay for the same job??? Maybe its job performance…

          • Hannah Carr

            I would leave it Carrie, it takes a certain level of IQ to understand why women work less, i suppose the same thing they would say when a feminism claims that 80% of men are happy with every other weekend with there children. No bia’s discrimination on the women front just the mans right? / Sarcasm No like and internalized bias. no far to much of a stretch for these ‘Penis Carriers’ – I use language like that, because well they claim MGTOW is not sexist while constantly using sexist remarks, “screen just popped up a blonde alert!” – Theirs one “You do realize that your survival depends entirely on men, right?” – Anthor one (Am calling that one sexist, as because of my SEX i cannot survive, that by definition is sexist,)so many more.

          • Carrie

            Yep, the certain level of IQ here is substantially less than I’m accustomed to debating with in real life.

            Maybe it’s the sadistic streak in me that let me allow myself to give them attention, ha ha. On the down side, I underestimated how positively nuts these particular guys get if a female notices their existence.

          • Max Wright

            No. That is a lot of misleading information intended to perpetuate the myth. The fact is that when jobs are filled, they are filled at a standard starting wage that all people starting in that position get, regardless of gender. A year later when raises are determined, the raise a person gets is determined solely by their job performance. If Johnny came to work every day and didn’t cause any trouble and did a good job, he will get a good raise. If Sally missed a few days because the kids were sick, and she got into a disruptive feud with Betty because someone rolled their eyes and made someone else cry…well maybe Sally won’t get as good of a rise. Its not discrimination, but it IS happening because she is a woman.

            As a manager with more than 15 years of experience supervising work groups that have always been predominately female (usually around 80%), I can assure you that there are women in the work place who make quite a bit MORE than men for the same job, because they come to work every day and don’t cause trouble and do a great job. But those women are rare. Most women in the work place end up in conflicts with other women, they miss work because they don’t feel good, or miss work because the kids are sick.

            It is also true that there are jobs that women simply can’t do. If the task is to lift 50 pound boxes all day, and a man can do that 200 times in a day, but a woman can only do it 100 times in a day, who should get the better raise? The man’s production numbers are better, he is less disruptive, and he misses work less often. So he gets a better raise.

            But then here come the feminists crying about the mythical pay gap.

            Please. I know better.

          • Max Wright

            Nothing like replying to your own post 😉

            Just had to point out that the problem of women not being able to lift heavy boxes as well as men leads to interesting ideas in the minds of feminist managers and supervisors. Like, “The men should just lift the boxes all day and the women should just be on the computers all day.”

            HA HA!

            Even better was, “let’s park forklifts next to all the work benches so the women don’t have to pick anything up.”

            When I laughed at that, she tried, “Let’s lower the conveyor line so the women don’t have to lift the boxes so high.”

            The CFO shot that one down.

            Bottom line: Women just can’t lift heavy boxes all day…

          • Max Wright

            If we got paid to educate our fellow man, I’d be a millionaire by now. You should quit digging for gold.

            And you can friend me on FB for more educational insights: https://www.facebook.com/max.wright.1044

          • Jason Picton

            We just refuse to be with western women, WE WIN.

          • Carrie

            Look, we all know it was women who went their own way first, but since they weren’t sad about it, they never made a big, noisy cry-fest about it. Once they were allowed to get their own jobs, earn their own money, buy their own homes, and live their own lives without the mandatory “provider” of all of these things (like in our mothers’ time), marriage just provided not as much value. The reason western women have consented to marriage this long is because bastardism used to be so freaking frowned upon (even by me, I hate to say), but now women are sperm-banking it rather than having to deal with the ONE part of marriage that kind of ruins it most of the time… the husband. Marriage is down, but not because MEN don’t want it, it’s because women DON’T. Men are still saving up paychecks and going into debt buying wives from impoverished nations *just so* they can be married ffs. Not so with western women… who had gone their own way long ago.

            And just because your bitter, clueless cabal likes to claim western women have ill will toward the Asian mail-order brides who have been purchased by the men we’ve rejected, I’ll tell you that my husband & I have four adopted children of half-Asian descent (different ethnicities however), whose fathers were American and their mothers were mail-order brides (or “E-brides” as they’re called now). Know why we adopted them? Because their fathers murdered their mothers once their mothers were capable of getting green cards and living independently of their owners, oops, husbands.

            I know it blows your mind to see that western women care about the lives and safety of all other women, ergo you label it the only way you know how, as “jealousy”. We love our kids (all, not just these four), but there is not a day that goes by that they wouldn’t wish to be back with their mothers. We (women) know that Asian women are not the pitiful submissive things in p0rn; however that IS the image that many wife-buyers are looking for, and when the brides are all done and paid for, the new owners are understandably upset that they just bought an androgynous version of the western “beast” they were trying so very hard to avoid. If you are in fact married to one, please do not murder her and throw her away because she wasn’t what you were hoping for. Especially if you have children. Adoption is awful and no child should be forced to go into that, no matter how cruel and uncaring you are.

          • Jason Picton

            As usual you make wild assumptions, trying to claim women went their own way first, and that my wife is a mail order bride and you fear I will kill her bal blah blah and so on.

            So lets just destroy your silly points.

            Men went their own way, women went feminism, which means they blame an imaginary patriarchy (men) for all her woes and life failures. Women just exchanged a Father or Husband as provider to the STATE as her new man, but its all funded on mostly male taxes. Women never go their own way, as its in their nature to hide in collectives, never stand out alone on their own feet.

            As for you ridiculous claims my wife is mail order or E bride, men know all the stupid shaming language used to try to discourage men from leaving the plantation and looking elsewhere. I have been involved exclusively in relationship with Asian women all my adult life, and even when i was 19 I still got anger from western women, even though my first Asian GF was older than me, over the years they actually were honest enough to admit they were angry because they could not get a man and we were looking elsewhere. It left them bitter and alone, andonly gets worse as the western ladies age.

            Marriage is down because men do not want it, the desire for marriage in women has risen to nearly 40% and dropped to mid 20’s (%) for men. There is ample reporting of it in all media sources, so try looking.

            You would have to be the most bitter cunt I have destroyed on line of late, you think men buy wives? You think men marry just for the sake of marriage, what a loon, men are reluctant to marry nowadays and when they do its because they think they may have found someone worth building a life with, albiet a foreign lady more and more.

            I do not believe your adopted children story at all.

            Perhaps if western women cared about everyone rather than just WOMEN then we would not ne seeing this massive social change of men refusing to be married to a selfish narcissitic western shrill.

            You are a joke and a disgusting human being who thinks every man with an asian wife bought her, LOL, you should the men reading this exactly why not to put up with or tolerate a western women.

            You just got OWNED

          • Carrie

            If you start your theories with the patriarchy not being real, you’ve just negated all of the tl;dr that dribbled out afterward.

            If you go back and fix that, I promise to read the corrected version. But until then, you have lost. That is the opposite of “WE WIN”, mind you, so I am offering you a second match after you correct your entire basis that follows the faulty foundation of the patriarchy not existing.

          • MGTOW

            We don’t care who wins. We’re going our own way for ourselves and our happiness.

            I for one am happy if you sit at home and tell yourself you all won. Good for you. We’re still MGTOW, and we STILL DON’T CARE!

          • MGTOW

            It doesn’t matter who began going their own way FIRST.

            MGTOW is here NOW! Deal with it. MGTOW is not going away. It’s growing rapidly. You should be happy, you all asked for it when you declared you no longer needed or wanted men.

            We just gave you what you wanted.

          • Max Wright

            Your thoughts on this are too monolithic. SOME women went their own way and that has caused society to change and created a situation where SOME men are now starting to go their own way, and SOME other women are starting to notice that (the ones who hadn’t gone their own way), and they don’t like it. That’s why there are articles about it online.

            Yes, women being able to earn their own living and make their own way in life has caused men to feel and behave this way. But not in the way you think.

            First of all, its created a situation where women really aren’t as happy as they thought they would be:

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1189894/Women-happy-years-ago-.html

            Now, they have to decide between having a career, raising a family, or doing a little of both. All the while they are getting messages from the media that they should dump any man who isn’t the man of their dreams, and the legal system is construed to protect her and help her ruin his life when she finally gets sick of him.

            Its also created a situation where men find it more sensible to not marry and to not even take relationships seriously. They still want sex, of course. So they become players, hire prostitutes, or something else….

            Meanwhile we have to deal with the mythical pay gap and the very real issues of gender discrimination and harassment. Plus, families are smaller and many children are not raised right because they are in a single parent homes. Or homes with both parents working outside the home. Most people in prison come from broken homes, BTW. Lack of supervision is the biggest reason children go astray.

            Now women are unhappy, children are delinquent, men feel apathy about relationships.

            None of this is good for women or families, or society, IMO. But hey, you wanted to go your own way…

          • Carrie

            Oh, and the bridal shop cross from our favorite eatery has smiling couples walking out all the time, with big white bridal gowns. See, many brides we see today (in that shop, as well as at the outdoor wedding chapel at our beach, and TV shows and so on) are f-a-t fat. The grooms, not so much. I always hear that fat women can’t get a man, but I hear it only from people who don’t know wtf they’re talking about.

            And LTR dating sites are very man-heavy, men are pursuing marriage at greater rates than women are. Those same sites get called out for faking the number of female profiles just so they look like they have far, far more women on their sites than they actually do. (They don’t need to fudge the male numbers, lol.) This is why men get so pissed when they write to fifty profiles and maybe just get two responses — the others can’t respond because they are likely not real profiles.

            Men benefit from marriage; women just don’t. Love is love of course, and two people who find that are lucky, but women are far more reticent to marry today, while men are so marriage-happy that they spend an arm and a leg importing a wife (or two, or three, depending on how many divorce him).

            So keep thinking that “YOU WIN” (lol), but since the other team refuses show up it’s hardly a “win” worth all caps.

          • MGTOW

            Fact: No man who wants a family marries a woman in her fifties. Mother Nature’s rules are harsh.

          • Max Wright

            Anecdotal evidence doesn’t trump hard statistics. Just because you see people getting married doesn’t mean there isn’t fewer people getting married (which there is.)

            Your definition of “fat” and a man’s definition of fat are two vastly different things, I’m sure.

            I couldn’t read any more of your post. Sorry.

          • Christopher

            Men don’t marry Feminists, “pussies marry Feminist”

          • Carrie

            Damn. I wish I’d read your second comment [above] before I’d bothered trying to be sensible with you.

            If all MGTOW can do is use misandrist shaming language, I really wish they would find some way to GO THEIR OWN WAY and get out of everyone else’s way. There are no greater man-haters than men who try to force all other men to like what they think men should only be allowed to like. If any man falls short of the misandrists’ demands, they will be shamed, belittled, called emasculating names. Very “manly” indeed, misandrists.

          • dkmeller

            “Women (at least feminists, anyway) find alimony to be insulting and archaic.

            You must be KIDDING!!

            “It keeps ex-wives under the “control”-your word-of their ex-husbands…

            What PLANET are you from, and which species are you discussing?? It can’t be Earth-or Homo Sapiens!

          • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

            It is in fact Earth, and no, it’s Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

            But thanks for following me across a few different discussion boards to respond all in one day. And it was also nice of you to not be able to dispute my claims, not that you could in the first place!

            I wouldn’t let my kids walk off with such weak, irrational arguments. Your parent(s) failed you.

          • Max Wright

            “If you want to see women not qualify for alimony, support their right to earn equal pay. ZING.”

            They have had that right since 1963

            http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/epa.cfm

            And the lies about the “pay gap” are getting tired :

            http://tinyurl.com/pusaoh2

            ZING.

          • Cody Grenzke

            Are you seriously that fucking stupid to believe that women DON’T receive equal pay for the same job? Oh, wow. Have you ever heard of the 1963 Equal Pay Act in the United States? No, of course you haven’t; you’d rather listen to the diatribes of the Feminist retards who lie and manipulate history to add in events and “facts” that aren’t true, while conveniently leaving out any information that would put their political rhetoric at risk.

            If you know about the law, you’d understand that it is against FEDERAL law for an employer to pay someone a lower wage because of their gender. If an employer does do this, they are at risk of violating civil rights and finding themselves in deep legal trouble. Save us the bullshit.

            Here’s proof for you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_of_1963

          • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

            No, quite to the contrary, I am not “that” stupid, nor stupid at all. By the way, it is an admission of a two-digit IQ to use “proof” and “Wikipedia” in the same sentence.*

            *I have only included those two fully incongruent words in the same sentence for effect.

            Also, perhaps you have heard that double homicide is also against federal law, yet that did not stop OJ Simpson… oops, I mean it did not stop the real killers. Saying that something is against the law does not mean it does not happen all the time.

          • Mark

            You’re a woman, sorry but your kind isn’t really “smart”. Feminists always cry about how the science fields are a “boys only club” when it’s just a simple fact that women don’t have the brain power to do it, ie they lack the amount of grey matter that a guy has.

            So, it always amuses me when a women flaunts around thinking she’s intelligent.

            And please, no one is buying the “women went their own way first”. Your kind is the most co-dependent, emotional, romance-novel reading bleeding hearts of the two sexes. It’s really quite pathetic.

          • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

            The fact that you don’t — or likely can’t — see the multiple fails in your response is nothing short of delightful to those of us who are intelligent enough to see them.

            Enjoy your inflated sense of ego. The rest of us will enjoy laughing at you behind your back.

          • Mark

            There’s no failings here. In all of mankind, from now until as long as we exist, there will never be a time when women dominate the science fields over men. Not counting of course when we integrate ourselves with technology and everyone becomes smart. But that’s not for a while yet.

            You can laugh all you want. You forget that I’m a white heterosexual male. What can you do to me when you can’t even hurt my feelings, heh.

          • MikeTO

            Equal pay? A wage gap doesn’t even exist. Oh wait professional single childless women make more than men.

          • Steve Jones

            I will book his ticket to Thailand or Brazil for him after the split :)

          • http://www.brotheryellow.com David Jonsson

            oh you “warned him” did you? such attitude

          • Max Wright

            Yeah, she warned him, she brags about making more money than him, she isn’t really interested in the kids and would rather not have them around. She’s GREAT!

          • Jason Picton

            “But I’ve warned him, should we ever divorce, he’s straight up getting custody of ALL the children. ”

            You cannot force custody onto him, I think he needs a good trip to Thailand to wake him up to what a cow you are.

          • Carrie

            Jesus, you poor, pathetic little thing :( You must get so much pity wherever you go. At least my pity for you won’t ever get lonely.

            I feel bad now that I was so rough on your earlier. Try rubbing some Preparation H all over yourself, head-to-toe, to relieve some of the pain, eh?

          • MGTOW

            We don’t care about your opinion. Your insults amuse us and validate our movement.

          • Tim

            /smallest violin

          • MikeTO

            All he has to do is get a part time job. LOL

          • Michael Panichella

            You know what I heard? “Hey! You didn’t reject me, I rejected you first! Hey! Where are you going?! Get back here!”

          • Michael Panichella

            This is why you took time out of your busy day to inform us all that we are being ignored? How thoughtful :). Typical woman.

          • Jim Christian

            Wow! This is exactly the kind of nasty cunt MGTOW is organized against! I mean, who marries THIS broad but a dickless moron?

          • Carrie

            Well, my husband is Ex- USN, and pro-Israel, so he’s quite accustomed to being called a dickless moron for that. Then he married me, and the shaming name-calling pretty much stopped! His friends all bug him asking if he’ll clone me.

            And although your sentiment is understandable, it’s really classless of you to call this article’s author a nasty cunt. He doesn’t need you to kick him like that.

          • Steve Jones

            LOL as if, clone a drone like you?

          • Andrejovich Dietrich

            “my husband is Ex- USN, and pro-Israel”

            Unless he served on the USS Liberty

          • the_mouse_

            “His friends all bug him asking if he’ll clone me.”

            Oh dear, you sound just like every guy whose girlfriend tells him “You’re the biggest guy I ever been with” and actually believes it. Hilarious.

          • CandidoCandide

            Unless he’s looking for a passport. Nothing is easy in this world.

          • Steve Jones

            Those men marry nice Thai ladies though rather than another shrill western woman :)

          • Jason Picton

            ” Men — who still seek marriage MORE THAN WOMEN — have had to start paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get E-brides (modern day mail order brides) from impoverished countries, simply because American women do NOT benefit from marriage like they used to.”

            WRONG western women still desire marriage more than men, and the data is online for all to find, its men sayong NO, not women, as if marriage and divorce does not benefit women, you have your head up your behind.

            Men get foreign women because they REJECT the local offerings.

          • Jason Picton

            “Divorced men remarry at higher rates than divorced women; women learn a lesson.”

            Men marry for love so remarry more easily.

            Women marry for money and once she has cleaned out a few men she does not need to remarry.

            You are actually promoting MGTOW

          • Carrie

            Women marry for money??? Women go to college and get good-paying jobs to avoid marriage for money, you mean. If you [somehow] think women are so hurt up for money, then you should be supportive of women having the same earning power that men do for the same jobs. And then {poof} no more need to marry for money (in your laughably wrong view).

            Go ahead, send up another clay pigeon. Yours are a mile wide and easy as hell to shoot down.

            I love the fact that you can’t see how your himsterical posts contradict each other… like how men are refusing to marry ‘western’ women ergo ‘western’ women can’t get married, yet these same women whom you try to claim can’t get married are somehow also marrying and marrying and marrying “a few men to clean out”???

            Pal, I know some people. Let me get you the help you need. Pictonopathy needs to be studied, diagnosed, and eradicated for the safety of humankind. We’ll become famous — you, for hosting the psychiatric diagnosis, and me for bringing your himsterical delusions to the forefront of modern psychiatry. They made a movie called “A Beautiful Mind”; maybe they can make one about you called “A Batshit Ranting Lunatic”? Maybe Michael Moore can play your role.

          • SydExE

            “Women marry for money??? Women go to college and get good-paying jobs to avoid marriage for money, you mean.”

            Women lobby the state for affirmative action laws that MAKE compainies hire them reguardless of their qualification, they also lobby the state for preferential treatment within the education system and they always go for the lowest paying degrees while men are going for STEM degrees (which pay more than some shitty liberal arts degree that women go for) and most of the jobs that women get are all funded by a state that is rapidly running out of money.

            And if women are so independent as you claim, than how come debts and deficits started getting out of control as soon as women became the majority of the electorate? It’s almost as if they’re voting themselves money from the public treasury in the form of state welfare. I guess women have decided that the state makes a better husband :0

            P.S. men pay most of the taxes, so you’re still married to us, albeit not directly.

          • Carrie

            Welp, it sure is a shame you believe what you believe. You’re wrong on many beliefs btw, but my job is not to disabuse you of your delicious-victim propaganda. It is, after all, too very delicious for you to give up.

            I have been in the STEM field for likely longer than you’ve been alive. If I had a dime for every time I hear your ignorant and fully false beliefs about women (and men for that matter), I could buy each of my employees their very own bench-top 15000 rpm Allegra 25R — including the night janitors and the security staff.

          • SydExE

            You seem to be an educated person, so I’m rather surprised to see you pontificate about feminism like a degenerate.

            You claim in some of your earlier posts that you find alimony to be insulting to women, why not say the same about affirmative action in the workplace and all the gender-exclusive grants and scholarships that women get? (despite them being a majority in post-secondary schools). I also find it ironic that a feminist would accuse another person of disseminating victim propaganda.

            All of what I said in my first post to you was true, here in the U.S. at least. Women heavily lobby the state for for preferential treatment. Both the labor and education departments are infested with feminists and have not be fumigated in quite some time.

            Go ahead a buy those machines, you’ll be contributing to the wage-gap since it’s men who design and build them.

            Keep spewing your vile, toxic and hateful ideology on the internet, if that what makes you feel good about yourself.

          • SydExE

            Took me a while to them, but I know how much you love graphics…

          • Carrie

            I do not actually happen to love graphics, especially ones with blatantly false propaganda on them. But you’re very fond of claiming to believe things that aren’t true, so I oughtn’t be surprised.

          • SydExE

            It’s an actually Gallup poll, so your image is the one that is false, fool.

          • Carrie

            lol, all I hate are lies and propaganda. And no amount of cartoon cats and photoshop and angry words superimposed upon images that you pull out of your backside will ever, ever stop me from hating those.

            And as for hustling, last I checked that was a very popular dance for gay men. But definitions change I suppose.

          • Carrie

            Also, since I could not find your supposed Gallup poll results ANYWHERE except for men’s “rights” sites, I went to Gallup and entered your question. Gallup gave me this image, where men and women saw eye-to-eye on everything except where men gave quite a bit less of a fuck about affordable childcare or work/life balance.
            Darn, I hate how helpful Google is.

          • SydExE

            I provided the link, please do the same with your images.

            Also, I noticed men were slightly more concerned with “Equal opportunity for promotion, advancement/No gender discrimination” as well as wanting “more respect in the workplace/Better treatment.” Aren’t most mid-level managers and HR people female these days?

            And on my poll, budget deficits as well as honesty/integrity are speciously absent on the female side…hmmmmmmmm

          • Max Wright

            “And on my poll, budget deficits as well as honesty/integrity are speciously absent on the female side…hmmmmmmmm”

            And Taxes are at the very bottom… Easy to not be concerned with them when someone else is paying them.

          • SydExE

            Correct. I also don’t believe it to be a mere coincidence that women are making most of their strides in a socio-economic system where the currency we use has been un-pegged from any representation of intrinsic value or production, where political correctness is rampant, or when we have a massive, over barring Government with its tentacles in every aspect of everyone’s lives.

            These stronk, independent career women are a genetic dead end – they’re less likely to raise healthy children (if they have children at all)

            Don’t expect the trend of the independent career woman to continue, evolution and economic reality will thin their ranks out quickly enough.

          • SydExE
          • MGTOW

            Can you explain what you mean by this?

            Carrie: “And as for hustling, last I checked that was a very popular dance for gay men.”

          • Max Wright

            Whoa! You have employees???!!! Are you paying the women less than the men for the same job???????

            No??

            Then what do you think is causing that “pay gap?”

          • Hannah Carr

            I don’t know if i live in a different world, or if its American or what, but no English feminist in recent times has even campaigned for affirmative action.

            Ill sort your arguments out for you.

            Men = Sex hungry violent beast’s

            Women = money grabbing men teasing whores.

            Theres we go you can all wallow in your stereotypes.

          • SydExE

            What do you think women do with their “women’s studies” degrees? Do you really think they get jobs at McDonald’s for minimum wage… no, they become lobbyists, professional activists and even get jobs for Government departments (Labor and education as examples) where they can influence policy and get more and more laws made to benefit women’s interests (Including affirmative action, since it’s the only way they can really advance at work).

            Women need the state to subsidize them because they don’t want to get married anymore, and the tax payers (men) must pay for those programs.

            And I agree with you that stereotyping women as greedy and unscrupulous, shekel-grabbing merchants who are looking for a pay day is most unhelpful, but it seems more and more of them really do only care about money, which is unfortunate.

            What goes around comes around, and the endless anti-male rhetoric coming from feminists like Carrie is going to get a response eventually.

          • Hannah Carr

            “Including affirmative action, since it’s the only way they can really advance at work)” How can someone like Carrie not get pissed of when you say things like that which come across as sexist as anything, and if it wasn’t you haven’t explained what you meant by it.

            From a 20 year old women on her level 4 AAT well earning my own money and advancing every much fine without ‘affirmative action; and supporting my boyfriend and his son, until his business he wants gets back on its feet. STFU

            I do not support affirmative actions, but i guess there’s a need for it, if there’s people like you of course.

          • Hannah Wallen

            “How can someone like Carrie not get pissed of when you say things like
            that which come across as sexist as anything, and if it wasn’t you
            haven’t explained what you meant by it.”

            People like Carrie can man up and learn to deal once in a while with the kind of criticism men face daily. While you’re offended at “since it’s the only way they can really advance at work,” it’s quite common for men to be expected to suck up “since XYZ is the only way you can get…” referring to a date, garnering affection, experiencing sexual intimacy, or any other description for advancing in a relationship with a woman. When men complain about being treated as if their humanity is of unequal value in terms of relationship dynamics, they’re accused of a sense of entitlement at the very least.

            That female tendency to take offense first, make assumptions second, and ask questions never is one of the biggest causes of interference between men and women in the workplace. It would be more rational for you to examine your own offense than to act on it, especially considering that, due to laws advocated for on your behalf by other women, while employers may not make official policy that discriminates, unwritten but heavily enforced standards for performance, attendance, and dedication in most workplaces aren’t as strict for women as they are for men, particularly those related to work-life balance, physical exertion, and safety risks. The mandate to consider unequal contribution of hours, unequal expectation of willingness to come in off-schedule, unequal physical strength and stamina in workplaces which make use of those characteristics, and unequal expectation of willingness to take on physical risks “equal work” for purposes of determining pay scale and promotion eligibility is itself an affirmative action policy. While most women will claim to be exceptions to those inequalities in expectation, the truth is the vast majority of us benefit from them without even being aware, and are so accustomed to being entitled to mommy exemptions, physical labor capacity exemptions, and chivalric attitude exemptions that even self-examination often doesn’t lead to acknowledging them for what they are.

            “I do not support affirmative actions, but i guess there’s a need for it, if there’s people like you of course.”

            This, in effect, is “Women should be given equal reward for unequal work because men like you say things I don’t like about women’s capabilities and I’d rather feel like I got in a parting shot than try offer counter-evidence against what you’ve said.”
            You realize all that statement does is show that you weren’t equipped to handle the task of countering the comment in the first place, right?

          • SydExE

            Affirmative action for women is the law of the land, especially for federal contractors/workers. They’re even talking about REQUIRING major companies in Europe and the U.S. to have their boards made up of at least 40% women. It literally has to be made a law for women to gain those positions. Women make most of their gains in the job markets mostly because of Government policy, not merit. Men are over 95% of all commercial patent holders in the U.S., a majority of STEM degree holders, and provide most of the productive labor is the economy that gives your dollars value. Female emancipation was more about getting women in the labor force to depress wages for the benefit of corporations. Working women will always cost the economy and society far more than they will ever contribute, a cost we will no longer be able to bear as the economy continues to decline.

            Men are always the losers when it comes to affirmative action, so I’m vehemently opposed to it.

          • SydExE

            I forgot to add this:

          • Jason Picton

            “If you think men’s actions are having an effect, you’d be better to realize that women are not noticing this supposed effect, ”

            Thats why we hear so many western women complaining “Where have all the good men gone.”

            LOL delusional feminists are the most fun.

          • Carrie

            The only time women ever say “where have all the good men gone?” is when we are forced to watch police footage on the news about the latest father snatching custody of his child long enough to throw him off a roof out of spite for his ex.

            Don’t you wonder where the good men have gone also? Or are you in favor of family annihilators or something?

            LOL delusional MGTOW who refuse to go their own way and cannot stop engaging with females every chance they get are actually the most fun.

            (See what I did there? I sank to your level long enough to respond in a way you’d understand.)

          • Max Wright

            “The only time women ever say “where have all the good men gone?” is when we are forced to watch police footage on the news about the latest father snatching custody of his child long enough to throw him off a roof out of spite for his ex”

            No, that’s crazy.

          • Jason Picton

            “Why do you think men complain so much about getting zero responses from months of hitting up female’s accounts? It’s because those are faked accounts with no actual woman at the other end. Men outnumber women on LTR dating sites because men are actually looking for LTRs and women aren’t.”

            WRONG

            White men and Asian women get the most reponses. OK CUPID :)

            Have a look on E-Harmony at all the lonely desperate women hahahaaaa

          • Tim

            Men wanting love even in a battered relationship is sad but everyone needs love.

            Point by Point Rebuttal

            Actual Female….LAWL

            Just cause you didn’t read it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

            Dating Sites lying are just doing what bars do, realize woman attract men.

            Saying its “Men Got Thrown Out By Women” is VERY misandrist

            woman have to be satan to lose child support and its RARE for women to pay alimony

            American woman don’t benefit? No Fault divorce and 50% of the property nice deal imo

            Woman not wanting marriage….LAWL ,,,Biological Clock nuff said

            Woman are noticing and if they stop marrying us then they can fuck the hell off cause we didnt want them anyway.

          • J S

            I confirm your assertion that WGTOW (Women Going their own way) supersede the male version by at least a decade. It was really eyeopening to learn from many of my older female co-workers at the place i use to work that many of them had no desire to ever get married again after their divorce or second marriage. When I asked them why they got divorced I was surprised to find that all except one divorced because their husbands were cheating on them. The woman who was the exception divorced her husband because he tried to kill her and that was after he cheated on her and she took him back. When I asked them why they would never marry again they all sentiment was pretty much the same. It cost to much in terms of their identity. Women had to take on the man’s last name and give up her own identity for them. They had their children and spent their energy and lives raising them providing a man with a legacy. They cooked and cleaned and took cared of their home. They gave up the potential of having careers of their own so they had no money of their own unless they worked in addition too.all they had to do for their husbands. Then these men cheated on them often with younger women. Not always but often. How disrespectful is that.

            These women admit they are angry and jaded on relationships. All of them agreed that men are cheaters and liars. My own mother was cheated on and she also was bitter. Their former husbands set the example for the next generation of women. The daughters who didn’t want to repeat the same situation their mother’s made. And yes there are women who cheat too but back then men still had the money and the work experience to support themselves during that time. Some of those women had never held a job they were housewives.

            The problem with MGTOW is that it doesn’t resolve anything. MGTOW is just another government form of social engineering designed and supported by the state like feminism was.

          • MikeTO

            I not a mgtow but I started going my own way 30 years ago. I agree some of your points. To be honest many men don’t know how to be men.

            yeah the so called MGTOW who have sex with women then complaining women are cunts, blah blah

          • Hannah Carr

            i don’t think that’s feminist’s mate, last time i check that institution is not one they have ever agreed with,

          • fernsoles

            Right on!! Shove it right up their ass, who the hell do they think they are
            expecting a man to get married ESPECIALLY IN THIS CULTURE. The pendulum swings BOTH ways, and you certainly can’t sink half a ship.
            I love it!!

        • tom

          The effect is HUGE. Start counting single mothers. 5X more likely to live in permanent poverty.

          • Carrie

            Hundreds of thousands would rather live in poverty than be married to a man. And you’re right, much of those choosing poverty over men will be in *permanent* poverty rather than temporary marital hell.

            Really says a lot.

          • Guest

            Carrie didn’t get the payout she wanted from his last marriage. . ..SHES MAD! LOL

          • Mark Tarnovetsky

            Carrie didn’t get the payout she wanted from her last marriage LOL

          • Carrie

            Her one and only, still current marriage? In which she makes well over twice what her military husband makes? That marriage? What constitutes a ‘payout’ these days? Happy, well-adjusted children who all do exceptionally well in school? A happy husband and a happy wife? A paid-off home, vacations, and a car for every teen? Because if so, then yeah, Carrie did get the ‘payout’ she wanted from her one and only marriage.

            Sorry to hear about your life though, and how it pales in comparison to that of happy people. Must be quite rough for you to come here and hurt in public. Very brave of you, very brave.

          • Wulfen73

            Yes Carrie, everyone is rich and talented with the perfect life on the internet. Makes me wonder why you’re coming to a small website that apparently you disagree with to argue with random people in a semi -regular fashion. A glance at Disqus tells me you probably do this a lot, and run into a lot of disagreement since you hide your discussions yet have a lot of upvotes, now, I’m just a humble Technician but if you are making double or more of my paycheck you must have a fairly demanding job, and with a number of children and the expectations put on a military man I would think your free time would be uncommon and precious, even more than mine, where do you find the time or inclination to bother arguing with strangers online?

          • Pigs r henchmen 4 politicians

            Wulfen73, seems like you pretty clearly debunked this troll “Carrie”. She likely just has 10 cats.

            Here’s a picture of Carrie: http://www.mgtow.com/content/posts/847/0.jpg

          • Wulfen73

            Debunked so much in fact she won’t even engage me, looks like she can only manage what she feels are easy targets

          • Pigs r henchmen 4 politicians

            When you are taught that being a female alone means your opinion has substance you aren’t actually required to have any. Carrie has clearly been lapping up the feminist vomit for a long time. Her hatred for men is so thick you can cut it with a knife. She just doesn’t appreciate how her life would be a living hell without men. She would be living in a naturally formed cave, if she could find one, if it weren’t for men. That’s the biggest problem with western women, no appreciation and a sense of entitlement that never ends.

          • Hannah Carr

            Dont reap the rewards of the work men did 1000 years ago that YOU had no play in. Also if men made everything, that also includes war, poverty, the inequality, you either made this world or you didn’t you cant have your cake and eat it to.

          • Max Wright

            We didn’t make the world. We made it possible to survive in this world. Sometimes survival requires war, poverty, and inequality. But women don’t understand that.

          • Hannah Carr

            ‘But women don’t understand that’ ha ha.

            So you argument for inequality is, ‘it just needs to be’

            That’s what the rich say to the poor.

            The Whites said to the blacks.

            It may at the beginning of time for survival obv be best men go and hunt but women stay at home and raise children (cause yano raising the next generation didn’t impact the world at all)

            You did not make it possible to survive

            Human beings made it possible to survive including women my friend.

            There is enough resources in this world to go round it is GREED that cause poverty, racism and religion that causes wars, and it is bigotry and un education that causes inequality.

          • Steve Jones

            Thats GOLD.

          • SydExE

            After going over the comments by this deranged lunatic, I’m wondering the same thing.

          • SydExE

            After going over the comments by this deranged lunatic, I’m wondering the same thing.

          • Pat Riarchy
          • Carrie

            Umm, thanks ma’am… Or ‘sir’? I can’t really tell by your pic.

            Regardless I am happily married and not interested in upsetting this applecart, let alone with Alice Cooper (no offense).

            {shivers, completely unrelated to the weather}

          • Wulfen73

            You sure like mentioning your marriage Lady MacBeth

          • Carrie

            You sure do like to delete your posts, “Pat Riarchy”. I’d distance myself from your posts too.

            Too bad Disqus pulled your profile. The old posts were quite, hmm, felonious and fun to peruse.

          • Marius

            So please answer this:

            1) I don’t get your point and why you are trying to prove here?

            2) If MGTOW is so insignificant to society, then don’t you have better
            things to do than come here and argue about issues that are minority
            insignificant issues, why is it so important to you that you would spend
            so much time here?

          • Carrie

            To answer this: I made one post, after which I got response after response after response. I “spent so much time here” answering requests. I spent minutes of my day being polite. I notice you aren’t asking this question to the one who pulled this limp ad hominem out of his butt: “”Carrie didn’t get the payout she wanted from her last marriage LOL”” Why aren’t you asking that uninformed poster why he fabricated an incorrect assumption out of absolutely nothing that was said. Why are you not asking why he did the equivalent of calling someone a fat neck-bearded, fedora-wearing, video-gaming virgin who lives in his mother’s basement? I stayed away from such insipidness (perhaps because I didn’t know this particular site thrives in such low-intelligentsia), and instead remained constructive and real.

            And for that, I get called out, while the name-callers, the insulters, the ones who fabricate childish and laughably juvenile lies, get tacit pats on the head from you. That is why not many of your responses will merit acknowledgement.

          • Marius

            1) None of your comments give the impression that you are polite in any way, so try that with your hubby.

            2) To answer your question You did make a statement

            Mother or father’s PayPal address, then we can continue. Otherwise
            you’re just going to have to remain [self-admittedly] in the dark.

            So you seem to like money, and I have no intention to want to defend you against any other contributes here because I dont see or value your position here.

            3) I don’t care about immature name calling you do the same, so have some. I focus on the intent, you are here to discredit MGTOW and I will not defend you, why should I, you talk crap most of the time in anyway.

            So I suggest you go to your feminist pears and go cry victim and sue.

          • Steve Jones

            Polite, I have pointed out many of your shaming language and ad hominem attacks already.

            “(perhaps because I didn’t know this particular site thrives in such low-intelligentsia)”

          • Steve Jones

            I got all that and a yummy petite asian wife who hates feminists :)

          • Derfel the Mighty

            See, everyone here has admitted they are done with relationships. Thus, the free time to come here and converse. You claim to not only be married, but in a high paying position…so you’re either lying, or in a loveless, sexless sham, of a marriage, so must come and annoy men to pass the time. You go grrrl

          • Carrie

            In the words of James Earl Jones: Totes Adorbs!

            But seriously — if this is you when you’re trying to sound like you know how to draw a conclusion — better put the crayons back. Because you’re no good at drawing anything but flies. (And perhaps laughs at your “Mighty” screen name choice.)

          • Derfel the Mighty

            Lol. At least I’ve never had a dick in my mouth, or cum in my face. And I like my flies, thank you very much.

          • Carrie

            I don’t know where this came from – never had a dick in your mouth or cum in your face? Don’t knock it til you’ve tried it 😉 It’s every bit as awesome as your friends Brucie the Mighty & Poof the Mighty have told you, girlfrennn.
            {alternate reply:} I couldn’t help but notice you didn’t include ‘butt’ or ‘hands’ in the places where you haven’t had dicks…

          • Derfel the Mighty

            lol, I’m not MGTOW, but I respect what they do. ‘Derfel the Mighty’ is an historical character, not my alter ego. And no, I have too much respect for myself to be any guy’s cum-rag.

            Enjoy your solipsism…a few more years and the machinations of your Handlers will come to fruition, and a once orderly, masculine society will degenerate into chaos while people like you cry and hide in a dumpster, wondering how the world ever got so bad. History always repeats itself, and every time a nation has given women power, that nation has failed.

          • Carrie

            I have no personal solipsism to enjoy — hence the reason to come to this site where the very idea of solipsism seems to have been created. (And I have no handlers btw — nor Handlers — either.)

            And Derfel is more a fictitious little Mama’s boy according to his creator, Bernard Cornwall. According to his own fiction, little Derfie-baby and his mommy were easily captured by the Brits and made into slaves. Come on, little kids come dressed as Derfel the Mighty for Halloween for crap’s sake.

            But you keep on believin’ he’s as real as the Limey monk he’s so very loosely based upon if it keeps the cum off your face, lol…

          • Hannah Carr

            Your very very wrong, every empire in this world has fallen, am pretty sure they was run by men? Every nation that has been run by men, has had wars, death. disease, poverty, rape, murder. I mean your so uneducated its a joke, the only place that allowed women power are tribes and that’s only recently, its become a matriarch. Your so uneducated its funny, like women are some strange creature, that cannot possibly hold power (cause yano men have done it great for so many years) LOL read a book please,

          • Derfel the Mighty

            “I mean your so uneducated it’s a joke…”

            I think you meant you’re. And you’re missing a comma as well.

            Rome’s decadence was it’s downfall, and that decadence–not surprisingly–was only taken to extremes after women were given some measure of autonomy. I may be a misogynist, but history is not.

          • Hannah Carr

            and insisting that a heterosexual woman is a guys cum rag, because shes attracted to males, (as her body dictates) also tells me am ok to call you lot pussy rags, if your attracted to females, hetero sexuality is a sexual orientation (in-case your retard brain has not learnt that yet) and not a choice

          • Max Wright
          • Hannah Carr

            you have no basis for the claim, apart, from your hatred for her

          • Phillip Folkler

            Only because they are married to the state, who doesn’t mind if the cuckold it…

          • Marius

            Here were I live I see women have babies so they they can get grants from the government often even then leave the kids at grannies too look after them while they get grants and sue for child support. So they get a instant salary for doing nothing but making babies. Its disgusting what women’s rights have turned women in to. If a person cannot take care of the child there is prison for men and free grants for women.

          • Pigs r henchmen 4 politicians

            You exemplify why men want nothing to do with western women. You’re a bitter man hater.

          • Carrie

            Minus the bitterness and the man-hate, ironically.
            I will sit patiently and wait, wait, wait for Western women to notice men wanting nothing to do with us.

          • Marius

            Again what are you trying to accomplish here? I don’t get it why you are here. You should be playing outside and pull boys hair, throw stones at them and call them stupid. You say you don’t have a issue with MGTOW, Yet you are out here ranting out at everyone. No body here seems to like you here. Do you have any other purpose here than to be a troll?

          • Carrie

            Surprise — there you are suggesting I do violent things to boys even though I have nothing but peace and love for them, because you cannot get it through your head that women do not feel about men the way men feel about women.
            Please think about your own life instead of mine. You needn’t concern yourself with women, especially if we do not feel the need to obey you. When you express intellectual integrity (by calling out the actual bad behavior here to which I am responding), you will begin to see where you have been going so wrong.

          • Marius

            I didn’t ask for psychological evaluation from a unqualified person,

            Up to now you haven’t proved anything, and decide which questions you answer, those you cannot answer you ignore because you cannot argue them. But I have no purpose to convince you of anything that’s the entire idea of MGTOW that men don’t need to explain themselves or expect women to listen or understand, because we know they are not capable to do that, So they just go their own way, whether you like it or not, or agree or not, it’s extremely irrelevant to any MGTOW. But my last question was fairly simple, I asked what do you try to accomplish here? What is your goal?

          • Carrie

            Lucky for you you didn’t get a psychiatric evaluation from a[n] unqualified person then.

            I already answered your question, multiple times. I will word it now as someone would perhaps word something for a very young child, since treating you with respect, as an adult, has not sunk in yet. I was trying to accomplish the answering of questions that were asked of me. I do not demand anyone particularly like the answers they receive, just that they cannot expect to do “drive by” insults or leave ignorant statements and not expect them to be addressed. I have in fact left many such woefully ignorant posts alone, because they did not merit attention from anyone serious; they were just actual bitter responses that don’t come close to deserving attention.

            For someone who claims he doesn’t want to engage me in debate, you keep engaging me in debate. Whatever you’re getting paid, I’ll double it. You should have more dignity than what you’ve been displaying, talking about throwing rocks and pulling hair.

          • Marius

            You still didn’t answer my question about what you want to accomplish here, so I guess trolling is the answer then.

          • Carrie

            You: What is 2 + 2?
            Me: 4.
            You: What is 2 + 2?
            Me: 4.
            You: WHAT IS 2 + 2?!?!
            Me:… f-o-u-r.
            You: I guess all you want to do is troll.

          • Marius

            After a few times I asked, I have not yet got any answer to what you try to accomplish. But I did get a free psychological evaluation from a troll. thanks for that.

            Trolling is when you go into a discussion, start arguments and take people on and then have no idea what you are trying to accomplish or have any goals in doing it. Its like a animal running into a village and start causing chaos and yet has no idea why it does that. That is a troll. That’s what you are since you have no goal or anything to accomplish. You just want to pick fights, make sweeping statements with no merit and seek attention. Thats a troll

          • Carrie

            Once again, you have accused me of actions that were much more closely followed by you yourself.

          • Marius

            You dont even make sure about your facts before you make statements before you think you know everything. Thus your input has no value to me.

          • Carrie

            I included links to sites that are infinitely more reputable than the Wiki link you provided. Come on. And mine were from non-partisan sources.

          • Marius

            You made the statement twice that I get paid for doing this. From which reputable source did you get that information?

          • Carrie

            Because I know that many liberals pay trolls to derail communication, I could only HOPE that you were getting paid to post what you’ve been posting. Because the alternative (of you actaully believing what you type) would be too painful. I have too high an opinion of men’s intelligence to believe this from you.

            Updated edit: I notice you aren’t disputing it. You just want to know who leaked the info.

          • Marius

            In other words you have no credible sources for your information, You assumed it? no credible resources for that statement hey, I guess you confuse your assumptions and opinions with facts that can be backed up with credible references.

            The fact is you are wrong. this is the first contribution I make to this site since I signed up a few days ago, I own a electronic engineering consulting and development company that do custom electronic development and mass manufacturing of electronic products, I don’t need some site to pay me.

            This is what I mean, you make statements, repeat them and have no idea what you are talking about.

          • Steve Jones

            Are you kidding thats a tactic of the left, losers like Collective Shout complaining about businesses opening in countries they do not even live in for example, feminists network to make as much noise as they can because they don’t have the numbers, did you not see how they reacted to women daring to reject feminist ideology and theory with things like Women Against Feminism?

          • Marius

            As I said you state facts, Like I get paid to do this, then you state it again. only for me to tell you I dont, and you dont know what you are talking about. You prove that your statements is not facts, its assumptions and opinions

            Secondly you have no proof that the references you have from feminist sites are more reputable than that from MRAs. I seen many data from feminists that will never uphold scientific scrutiny at all because the errors are obvious. But feminist don’t need scientific correctness to be able to publish their stuff.

            Why would the facts of Dr Rachel Jewkins be more accurate than that of Dr Warren Farrell, Why would facts of Jeanette Winterson be more correct than Dr. Helen Smith’s.

            Just because you are a feminist does not always make you right, it only makes you think you are always right.

          • Steve Jones

            As long as those sites cite their ref’s, feminists are as biased as they come, get real.

          • Marius

            So Carrie which actions is it which you want me to be honest about, it appears you know of actions I don’t which is in conflict with what Im saying? Please tell me what it is, then I will admit to it, if its accurate.

          • Marius

            I knew you didn’t had anything to add to your empty statement!!

          • Steve Jones
          • MGTOW

            “but I don’t really care why.”

            And yet you continue returning here to post.

          • Saiyo

            feminists =/= women
            MGTOW =/= men

            you can see the sexism (misandry or mysogyny) on any people who talks like that, i see both on this thread. Check yourselves

          • Carrie

            Agreed 100% with your first bit. Feminists are not just comprised of women, but also of men who recognize the benefits of ending oppression for all. And MGTOW is less than one percent of the male population, (and technically zero percent of the female population).

            So, ”feminists =/= women, MGTOW =/= men” is fully accurate.

          • Honey Badger Brigade

            Wow Carrie, you spend more time in these comments than I do, and I run the site.

            Feminism promotes learned helplessness in women via a narrative of endless victimhood(oppression). It’s your choice to engage in this kind of self-destructive behaviour, but some of us women don’t feel like settling for an identity of victimhood.

            To each their own I suppose. Now excuse me, I’m afraid I don’t have as much time to spend in the comments as you do.

          • Carrie

            Hey, thanks for the updates! Super good stuff to know.

          • Saiyo

            feminists =/= equalists/egalitarians,

            feminists=/= people who want to end oppresion FOR ALL (some of them are, some don’t care about men)

            Equity feminists (a la Christina Hoff Sommers) = equity for all, want to end opression for all
            Egalitarians/equalists= same as above

          • MGTOW

            The feminist brand is so tarnished by its hate-filled rhetoric, that fully 80% of women now refuse to identify with it.

          • MGTOW

            “because you cannot get it through your head that women do not feel about men the way men feel about women.”

            You’re right. Men try to love women, while women view men as walking ATMs.

          • Steve Jones

            Its happening, the fastest growing demographic is men marrying asian women, better do yoru research, start with Pew or Bernard salt.

          • MGTOW

            Record low marriage rates already demonstrate this.

            Just read about how tough dating is for NYC women while you bathe in men’s tears.

          • Hannah Carr

            You are not ‘men’ she is not ‘western women’

          • Marius

            @Carrie So if so many mothers choose to live single without men, and abandoned marriage why is MGTOW then a problem? since its men doing exactly the same thing you women are doing? then why is it a problem if we do it? Everywhere MGTOW is bashed for being selfish, and what-what. But here you talk like its normal for women to abandon marriage…then surely MGTOW should be perfectly normal and acceptable as well. Its acceptable for feminism to encourage female independence.

            Else you would be a hypocrite telling us how its normal for women, but here you are picking fights with guys about MGTOW. If its so normal for women to go and be independent and don’t need men, then why do you still bother to come here, then it should be none of your concern if men stay single rather either.

          • Carrie

            I don’t think MGTOW is a problem. I never said it was, I never implied it was, I never believed it was. The only “problem” with men in the MGTOW movement is that they insist that women say, think, and do things that we do not say, think, or do.

            The MGTOW “movement” would best be compared to morbidly obese, elderly people starting a “movement” about not going into the modeling business. It is caterwalling for the sake of attention. If people want to crow about something that isn’t even open to them that much, fine. But don’t expect a little giggling at the irony that you’re blind to.

          • Marius

            1) I didn’t know MGTOW was a movement Carrie, you are teaching me something new now, I didn’t know there was a manifesto and a goal oriented structure about it in order to define it as a movement. Feminism is a movement, it has a manifesto, organized structure and made out of goal orientated organizations, MGTOW is as much a movement as what “independent women” is. I thought it was only men going their own why…a phenomena, like women being independent. But never mind that

            2) Now what you are saying is that men who choose to be single (Read MGTOW) categorically say bad things about women which is not true. therefore you have a problem with what MGTOW say? I have dated many women, I read many laws, I read many case studies of divorces and stats, I know many of it is perfectly true whether you like it or not, these comments are not meant for you. And besides, if you dont agree with what MGTOW say, then don’t join the movement, its that simple.

            But every time i turn on the TV I must listen to male bashing feminist media so that I dont watch TV at all anymore. I must see male friend lives destroys by women who benefit from divorce courts and women like you who would challenge me if I would warn them. I feel no sympathy for you who don’t like what MGTOW guys say.

            If women can talk crap and hate speech of men all over the net and mainstream Media, then I couldn’t care less if you like or dislike what MGTOW Guys say, DEAL WITH IT. maybe you should rather get yourself a blogging space that is meant for people who sit and piss.

            You are not preventing it, you are provoking it. Every guy who read your comments will be more compelled to go MGTOW and raise a opinion about women like yourself, so what are you trying to accomplish?

            You want to create more of that you are fighting against? didnt you learn anything from feminism?

          • Steve Jones

            But what Carrie and her feminist cohorts just cannot handle is the contemplation that they are the cause of men refuisng to marry, Feminism is Marxist Lesbianism and a key belief is its never the females fault, so we get Battered Wife Syndrome or Postpartum as a excuse.

          • MGTOW

            If MGTOW is so trivial, why do you keep returning here to be resoundingly refuted?

          • Steve Jones

            Most men would rather be single than marry a feminist, feminism is dying, hehehehe, less than 15-25% of people identitfy as feminist.

          • Marius

            I was wondering on the issue of most women not identifying with feminism if it only about saying so. Like most guys would not identify with being a chauvinist or womanizer even if they are. Most women would not identify with being a slut even if she is. You get alot of people who steal and who do not want to be called a thief.

            I think women want the perks feminism bring them, work privileges, special funds for women, favoritism in courts, victim roles in society and be gold diggers but when you ask them, then they dont identify with feminism at all, but still they support and enjoy the perks of it or take advantage of the rights and privilege feminism give them.

            I think there are many women who want more rights for women and dont give a rats ass about men, who would marry him and divorce him only to take half his income, or who hate men and who would not appreciate being called a feminist.

            The idea that feminism got a bad name, I will not dispute, I think it is true. The more feminism reputation gets a knock, the fewer people want to be associated with it for social reasons, it does not mean that women would not support the idea of being privileged or have their victim roles working for them or take advantage of what the courts have to offer or even make donations towards the feminist movement in support for their perks.

            But my thoughts are if the figures are meaningful if it purely based on who associates with feminism or who would like to be called a feminist?

          • Hannah Carr

            But its like the most basic thing ever, if that woman did all that it would make her by definition a none feminists, that how funny this is.

          • Marius

            It kind of resonates with saying per definition a Christian will not molest children, yet priests are known for it. Or real Christians dont kill, yet more people are killed under Christian authority than in both world wars. How funny is this.

          • Hannah Carr

            Good point in all honestly. But you could say by definition there not christens if you no what I mean?

          • Hannah Carr

            *Christians

          • MGTOW

            Good for those women. It’s their choice to marry or not, just as that is a valid choice for men as well.

            You do support choice, don’t you?

        • http://www.GamesByRich.com Rich Hutnik

          Maybe what is needed is for more men to just have an effect on themselves and get on with their lives. Let those who be rage and so on, just become a success, and grow up.

        • J S

          Nicely said Terry.

        • coptic777

          At no point did I assert I had a effect on anyone other than myself so your emotional response was projection & invalid. You just pulled that out of your ass. Your credibility is questionable based on that alone. Stop making things up…

      • MikeTO

        PUmping and dumping women isn’t revenge? LOL

    • Take The Red Pill

      MGTOW is not ‘revenge’ so much as it is justified self-protection against the toxic women of this misandric society.
      Since the concept of revenge has a negative social connotation, it isn’t surprising that it has been used in this article; it’s yet another instance of defaming masculinity/male characteristics while also attempting to prevent the women of this society from having to assume responsibility for the results of their actions.
      A corollary of this is the typical way that is also seen in social attitudes towards ‘unusual’ sexual practices: women who have them are “kinky”, while the men who have them are just “perverts”.

  • Steven Richards

    Even though I would never trade my girlfriend and son for anything, I completely understand why less and less men are willing to take such huge risks. Too bad most feminists would never read something like this…

    • http://www.facebook.com/observing.libertarian Observing Libertarian

      I’m glad you found someone worth having: it doesn’t happen often enough.
      Even though I wrote this article: I never begrudge a guy who’s managed to find a gem out of one of those wicker baskets. I hope you two are happy and make a good life together.

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    Men opting out of marriage. There was some activity as I recall to guilt men as being selfish for choosing to stay away from this horrible institution. So are we being led to believe that we have absolutely no choices? That because all of these strong independent women who on one day scream career and equality. And when they are tired and worn out over having to function in the real world, want to get married and walk away from that equality.

    How dare men choose not to be their safety net!!!

    • Marius

      you are right, with double standards women and feminists want to ensure that they have their bread buttered in both sides. They want to destroy that what comes with the patriarchy which they don’t benefit from, but then want to reinforce that what comes with the patriarchy when it suits them as well.

      The changes color all the time, make one statement to prove a point and the moment its a different argument then they change the statement. They want to call themselves feminist when they are winning but when feminist takes a knock they dont want to be called feminists. All women shout together that they can do everything men can do, but the moment there is domestic violence or hard labor that needs to be done, they say “but we are women”, women are chameleons who always change color to get the most benefits from every situations.

      When arguing with feminists, you must always know that the facts they give you will change as soon as the topic or the tide changes, their facts are extremely variable. Its called female manipulation which women are notorious for.

  • Brian Mckenzie

    Let them have a herd of cats. MgToW is simply the ROI (return on investment) <ROE (rules of engagement) of being in the traditional American Nuclear family (married w 2.3 kids) is TOXIC – it is nothing to be strived for. It is a new American Roulette with 5 rounds loaded and only one chamber empty

  • Pat Riarchy

    I view my being MGTOW as nothing more than a personal declaration of independence.

    • Mark Tarnovetsky

      LIBERTY OR DEATH

    • Take The Red Pill

      For men, marriage is “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

    • Marius

      I agree, there is so many attachments of its a movement, and what the rules are, and how to concour the enemy,

      To me its about the maths, knowing what is best for your life and what is the wise choice for the current situation. there is no reason to even argue with feminist, they will have it their way in anyway, so the best is we do things our way and that’s it.

  • Michael Taylor

    Great article and your “wicker baskets” analogy is spot on. My mother has noticed the sites I follow on FB (MGTOW, Anti-Feminism, No White Feather) and asked me why I “hate” women. I don’t “hate” women. If I had to label my attitude it would be more I am apathetic to women and this article spotlights the reason why perfectly…there’s no percentage in it. The cost-benefit analysis tells me that, barring a miracle (and a Louisville Slugger to the head) having any type of long-term relationship with a woman is not in my best interest either emotionally, physically, financially or legally. I thank God I’ve been lucky so far to not have any children tho I am in the middle of a divorce where my ex is trying to get half of my military retirement after she cheated on me and subsequently abandoned me.

    • Marius

      Great stuff, Its just important that we must carry our experiences and wisdom over to the new generation to learn before they walk into these traps because they get misguided by feminism and mass media, to think Love=Marriage=Sacrifice for women= the right thing to do.

      Tell guys:

      1) Are you willing to conform to her needs all the time, because if you not you may be up for divorce, if you do you may still be up for divorce if she finds someone bettor or got what she wanted

      2) are you willing to pay child support a 3 times or more the rate than what the child needs for the next 18 years.

      3) are you willing to pay alimony for a wife who gave up on her career who just want to sit and suck you dry, if no, then don’t get married

      4) Are you willing to sit in jail if a recession hit again and men are the first to loose their jobs and you cannot pay that child support.

      5) Are you willing to have all the success you workforce be divided in half or more

      6) are you willing to be dragged back to court all the time for more money

      7) are you willing to deal with a ex take your child and go live in the other side of the country so that you hardy have access to it and tell your kid how bad husband and dad you are?

      8) are you willing to have the person you despise the most, be part of your life for the rest of your life, divorced or not, there are still many legal conditions that binds you afterwards like children and alimony

      9) are you willing to suddenly be called a abuser, or sleazebag or useless in court, friends and family because she wants to score during divorce and make everyone know she is in the right for not keeping her commitment.

      No man can say he will not have to live with that, that wife can file no fault divorce at any day, and 70% of divorce are because of that. While men fear commitment, its women who don’t uphold commitment.

      Even if you think you don’t want children, the chances is good that she will or change her mind to want it later and the odds are good that she may have it. skip a pill or ask not to use a condom, or use your used condom and later claim its a mistake, Or she can sleep with another man and the court make you liable for the kid.

      I don’t say, don’t get married, I say consider a possible and rather likely consequences, If you are not willing to deal with any of the points 1 to 9 then don’t get married. While fewer people marry, even amongst the most confident of the confident, there is an ever increasing divorce rate, depending on country. So never assume it will not happen to you.

      You need to pass 3 phases before really knowing a woman, phase 1) dating ,2) marriage 3) divorce.

      you still have not pass the entire cause of knowing her until you meet her in court. that’s the last semester of your training where you qualify to know her truly. You only get to really know a woman when you meet her in court. So don’t assume you know her after the dating phase. That’s the biggest mistake. a statement like “not all women are the same” should be replaced with “all family courts are the same”

      I don’t say, don’t get married. I say make sure you are happy with the possible and rather likely consequences. Don’t trust contracts and agreements, court chuck it out like toilet paper. If you are happy with it, then good go ahead, if you are not, rather leave her now than to suffer the consequences.

      But we must teach the young generation about the risks they don’t know they are facing when sleeping around and let women pressure them into marriage.

  • Flo

    Sad that we have come to this point where the society/the state is so toxic towards men that we have to shield ourselves against pretty much anything that involves women. And it’s not even women’s fault. This is the result of 60 years of Feminism. The western world is in a demographic collapse with a fertility rate of 1.3 where 2.1 is required just to stay afloat. The problem is that there isn’t a single example in history were this trend reversed… basically Feminism accomplished the destruction of our Civilization in less than a century. We just watch it crash and burn while we live more and more separated. Men have come to fear the presence of women, that tells volumes.

    • Paul Johnson

      Feminism just helped expose gynocentrism for what it is. This isn’t the fault of feminism — it’s the fault of gynocentric society, and MGTOW know this.

  • pandora delphy

    Bravo. This is a terrific fucking article. I’m lucky to have come along in the world at an earlier time, and am proud to say that I am happily married to a man who is a truly awesome person. I like making a home for him, like providing for him as thanks for the way he provides for me, enjoy his company and also the fact that he has hobbies of his own which take up the rest of his time so that he has space for himself and his own thoughts.

    I despair for his son, who has already been dating a gender studies girl and has impressed upon him the fact that women are the most oppressed group on the planet; when this notion was brought up at brunch one afternoon his father and I exchanged a quick glance and took some time to talk about other groups one might consider to be oppressed and perhaps, possibly, *even more than* women–the poor, blacks, gays, and yes, men. I hope it sticks, it’s a rough world out there for young men. I feel a genuine fear for his son, who is as decent and loving a man as his father, but who is growing up in a time which is much more dangerous for men to navigate.

  • Jim Christian

    Millions of chicks on the dating sites. Get a vasectomy and say nothing about it. You’ll draw in the chicks that want to sneak your sperm into them and of course, they won’t get pregnant with your kid. Pump em and hump em and then dump em after they become annoying or get the notion they OWN you. You want to get some pussy after all, just make sure you don’t knock her up and don’t take any shit off her. As long as she’s fulfilling the original promise of a woman, she can stay. When she becomes a boss with a vagina, she goes. Simple concepts, these.

    It’s not being a male pig, it’s giving women a taste of the feminism that’s been used against the men for lo these many decades.

    • daboys1215 .

      Giving women a taste of feminism would be to completely ignore them not constantly have sex with them. You are just playing into their hands.

      • Jim Christian

        Better to fuck em. It’s what they want, every way the is. Tie em up, prop them up, violate them in the nastiest ways. Then, after you’ve filled them with spooge, you spit in their eye and show them the door. Sure as the sun rises in the East, they’ll be back the next night ready for more. The filthier the better. They don’t want “nice guys”. They want it filthy and dirty and rough. They WANT to be treated like pigs. The nice guys take them to dinner and the bars. But at midnight, when nice guy drops them off at home after spending hundreds on her getting her warmed up so he can get his peck on the cheek, he’ll go home and spank his monkey. But she’ll be letting me in the back door. In more ways than one. And I will foul her some more.

        Thanks, Nice Guys. If you only knew the slobs you spend your money on.

    • Marius

      If revenge is your strategy, then its best to make a success of your life, don’t be dependent on them or need them. I always say, make a success of your life is a double barrel shot gun for anything, just don’t let some bitch come and take it away for her selfish benefits and leave you ruined. Be wise about your future.

      Sperm downers helpfulness backfire when the lesbians he helped out with sperm turn around and sue him for child support even if there was a legal agreement.
      Guys get attracted as child molesters for helping a crying toddler who lost his mom.
      just ignore women and move on and don’t let them screw things up for you. Your good deeds are easily turned against you in an instant.
      you take a woman out have two drinks, she feel like having fun, you guys have sex, the next morning you get arrested for rape, she had alcohol and was legally intoxicated and therefore not able for consent, here her drinking and need to have sex will be your fault and you will pay the price for it as a sex offender.

      Just forget women, Im telling you, sleeping around does not reduce your risks to become a victim from women’s justice weapon. and feminists has only just got going with using men’s needs against them, its not going to get any better, decisions you make now will catch up with your later as feminism continue to incriminate men.

      • Jim Christian

        I’m going to fuck them, not own them. I won’t be responsible for them, I’m just going to hose em down. It’s the feminist formula. Fuggem and forgettum. They’re as strong as I, they need me like a cunt needs a tampon, or a bicycle, or something, I forget how it goes.

  • Take The Red Pill

    “Not all women are ‘Like That'”.

    Doesn’t matter anymore. Not all snakes are venomous, either — but if it is impossible to tell any difference between the venomous and the non-venomous snakes, your best decision is to avoid ALL snakes, period. End of story.

    “Since modern women refuse to be good examples, they must serve as dire warnings to any man who approaches them.”

  • Marginalized Dad

    MGTOW is simply men telling government, society and women, “you no longer deserve me.”

  • Gustavo Alckmin

    The first 80% of the article is objective and makes good points, but the latter 20% left me feeling ashamed for the author. It sounds like a kid threatening the adult who took the candy from them. Completely unnecessary.

  • Martin

    The state has encouraged divorce and keeps single mothers alive. 72% of taxes is paid by men in UK

  • Andrew

    “So how exactly do you sort them out and decide which basket to stick your hand in? They all look the same … most of them don’t have audible hissing or rattling.”

    They may look the same physically, but you have to be aware of the red flags. Red flags to look out for in men are constantly being talked about. Most young girls get a talking to from their parents about how to avoid dangerous men. I do not know one single man who received such a talk about avoiding dangerous women.

    Red flags for women:

    Promiscuity
    Self-centeredness (obsession over looks, obsession over dominating conversation or the activities you do together, etc)
    A dating history of dysfunctional relationships

    All of those red flags are accessible before you have sex with a woman. If you choose to have sex while ignoring the red flags, or not doing your best to uncover them, you face some nasty consequences. Some MGTOW’s make good points, but I’ve very rarely heard a MGTOW bring up these red flags which can allow you to reduce your risk of being abused by a woman significantly. Why ditch women completely? Just ditch all the bad ones.

    • Lorenzo Benito

      Some MGTOW’s make good points, but I’ve very rarely heard a MGTOW bring up these red flags which can allow you to reduce your risk of being abused by a woman significantly.

      I’ve heard MGTOWs bring these up lots of times. I guess you and I move in different circles.

  • Jason Picton

    To the western woman her cats, to the western men asian women :)

  • Jason Picton

    Now you will see that Hannah Carr just stops/blocks me and others from replying, because she is a scared gutless feminist.

    MGTOW is doing whatever we want, not what others want or expect, simple as that.

    So lets post up her replies and smash her one comment at a time.

    “Hannah Carr Jason Picton • 19 hours ago

    But on a serious not you not MGTOW then are you? because you just want pussy, but as long as it does what you say, so your not going your own way, or going for independent women, your doing the opposite.”

    As explain to you, MGTOW is doing whatever I want, I can stay sinple, PUA or marry, I have chosen to marry a nice asian lady and that draws the immediate ire of women like Hannah because she thought women could be disgusting feminists and men would just have to go along because they want SEX.

    Like all feminists she is threatened by things that give men options, like FOREIGN WOMEN, PROSTITUTION, PORN and yes MGTOW.

    Even men just saying NO completely threatens them, because they want to be free from their societal roles but still need men to fulfill theirs.

    There is no such thing as an independent woman, they are either supported by FATHER, HUSBAND or STATE.

    Women thought they could be all bitchy arrogant feminists, having their own career, putting themselves first and then when they decide, usually in their 30s they want a baby, then they revert back to traditional roles and expect men to MAN UP, work and support her while she plays mummy.

    Then she will do this until she has had enough, probably divorce the husband to increase her assets and create an income stream from child support and/or spousal support.

    Beware any woman who claims to be a non feminist western gal.

  • Jason Picton

    In reply to Hannah Carr’s comments.

    MEN WANT HER

    Wanting to shag you is not an indication of a man who wants to marry you 😛

    Plenty of women find that out the hard way.

    SHE WILL TURNMY WIFE FEMINIST?

    Nope, different culture, my wife and all the women I have ever been seriously involved with have been asian, western women despise and treat asian women like shit, angry they they are lonely cows themselves,so it naturally turns asian women against western women as in my wifes case.

    SHE CONTROLS THE GAME?

    You can do whatever you like and men can too, and currently western ladies are being rejected and its their own fault, you are but one female and not the whole demographic, western men should not risk any woman in the west, due to the system they reside in, were brought up in and can quickly turn to once they are displeased with a man. :)

  • Jason Picton

    So we have all these women who don’t care about and are unaffected by MGTOW on here commenting, getting very involved and predictably defensive about criticism of western females, I think they do protest to much hahahaaaa

    • Lorenzo Benito

      Yeah, it’s funny, isn’t it?

  • Jason Picton

    Hannah Carr an hour ago

    Stop harassing me, good political lesbians, so easy to be selective grow up. The majorty of the population will still go on to marry, and have kids, even if they don’t marry they will still co-habit.

    LOL

    So us replying is now harassment, what is this woman even on here for? Is she harassing MGTOWs? Thats her logic.

    • Hannah Carr

      You seriously need some help, your the only guy I’ve argued with, all the others have been mature conversation
      You told me to eat dick
      am a cow to be milked

      hmmmmm….
      MGTOW MORE POWER TO YOU!

    • Hannah Carr

      You seriously need some help, your the only guy I’ve argued with, all the others have been mature conversation
      You told me to eat dick
      am a cow to be milked

      hmmmmm….
      MGTOW MORE POWER TO YOU!

  • Jason Picton

    “Hannah Carr

    listen am going to leave this conversation, cause its childish, but Jason you do what you want, I don’t care if men don’t want to marry I don’t care if they don’t want children, some of the men here are great, one in the comments explained MGTOW in a nice a understanding way not ranting and raving about Asian women Women have sperm banks for children, and am pretty sure most now don’t ‘need men just as you don’t ‘need’ a woman so you have a nice life doing what you wanna do cause that’s your right, i.e I will eat dick preferably my boyfriends later :)”

    Don’t put your hang ups on us, Asian women are still mostly normal, unlike western feminists, nobody mentioned Asian women’s children, and you call children sperm banks, look, men are just responding as they will, if western women are struggling to find a man, as they are, then its on them, nobody telling them how they have to be, but men are just voting with his feet.

    So why are you even commenting on here and why do you care about MGTOW?

    • Hannah Carr

      Because I care about men and how there feeling, unlike you am human and have human emotions, I never said anything about Asian women, And what children come from sperm you fucking idiotic do you seriously no no that?
      You really need some medical help

      • Jason Picton

        Stop replying u dumb cunt.

        • Hannah Carr

          No. HAHAHAHAHAHA ! Now I start the trolling

          • Jason Picton

            You cannot troll a troll :)

          • Hannah Carr

            you so can ,

      • Jason Picton

        You made the comment about asian womens children being sperm banks, idiot.

        • Hannah Carr

          WTF I said women can get children from sperm banks you cant even fucking read

          • Jason Picton

            Why do you hate asian women so much, I am used to the angry bitter looks I get from you loser women.

          • Hannah Carr

            LOL

          • Hannah Carr

            debunked mutha fuka! 😉

          • Carrie

            Ah, remember though — he never said he could read.

        • Hannah Carr

          MGTOW in a nice a understanding way not ranting and raving about Asian women Women have sperm banks for children,

      • Jason Picton

        “Asian women Women have sperm banks for children…”

        You said that.

        So now typical of butthurt western women she claims I need medical help.

        They will resort to anything except admitting feminism has turned western women toxic and thats why men are saying NO!

        • Hannah Carr

          Copy the whole comment you loon

          • Jason Picton

            bite back

        • Hannah Carr

          MGTOW in a nice a understanding way not ranting and raving about Asian women Women have sperm banks for children
          You are a rad fem reserve

  • Jason Picton

    You heard it guys. From Hannah.

    She cares we don’t, she is against MGTOW and in denial about men rejecting western women because of feminism, and its for our own good, she is here to save us.

    • Hannah Carr

      MGTOW in a nice a understanding way not ranting and raving about Asian women Women have sperm banks for children,
      Selective pickings ? You sound like the people you hate, listen MEN TO THE MEN ON THIS PAGE, YOU DO WHAT EMPOWERS YOU SINGLE MARRIED WHATEVER THAT IS YOUR RIGHT.
      more power to you guys, but not Jason he’s just a fucking loon sorry.

      • Jason Picton

        LOL you sound butthurt, if you agree with NGTOW what are you on here for, are you the Super Defender of Western women? Cannot handle some exposing of negatives about your women?

        • Hannah Carr

          My women ? LOL I asked a man a question he answered it, you just started throwing insults,

        • Hannah Carr

          Well I did come to see If it was the hate movement everyone calls it I can see it isn’t just like every other group has certain bad people (you) but the majority are fine and just want there own space and time.

    • Hannah Carr

      -_- there’s twisting words, then there’s taking shit out of thin air and pretending someone said it to further your hate. (for western women)

  • Jason Picton

    She also claims women now have sperm banks, Hannah displays the typical feminist attitude, she denies she needs men, but what if men do not donate sperm, as they are less and less now that they can be sued for child support.

    The fact is western women rant and rave about not needing men, but still expect all the perks, but no gratitude.

    Ungrateful and arrogant best sums them up.

  • Jason Picton

    Hannah said she was leaving but just cannot stop commenting

    Bwaaahhhhhhhhh

    We all know she is an entitlement princess, she cannot even accept men going their own way, she is her to push her agenda and keep men fulfilling roles that suit women, despite her saying otherwise, if not why is she even here?

  • Jason Picton

    hooks in deep with Hannah lol

  • Jason Picton

    Hooks in Hannah lol

  • Jason Picton

    Hannah Carr Jason Picton • 3 hours ago
    Well I did come to see If it was the hate movement everyone calls it I can see it isn’t just like every other group has certain bad people (you) but the majority are fine and just want there own space and time.

    Ok so if you dare reject western women you are a bad bad boy LOL

  • Jason Picton

    Jason Picton Carrie 2 minutes ago

    As usual you make wild assumptions, trying to claim women went their own way first, and that my wife is a mail order bride and you fear I will kill her bal blah blah and so on.

    So lets just destroy your silly points.

    Men went their own way, women went feminism, which means they blame an imaginary patriarchy (men) for all her woes and life failures. Women just exchanged a Father or Husband as provider to the STATE as her new man, but its all funded on mostly male taxes. Women never go their own way, as its in their nature to hide in collectives, never stand out alone on their own feet.

    As for you ridiculous claims my wife is mail order or E bride, men know all the stupid shaming language used to try to discourage men from leaving the plantation and looking elsewhere. I have been involved exclusively in relationship with Asian women all my adult life, and even when i was 19 I still got anger from western women, even though my first Asian GF was older than me, over the years they actually were honest enough to admit they were angry because they could not get a man and we were looking elsewhere. It left them bitter and alone, andonly gets worse as the western ladies age.

    Marriage is down because men do not want it, the desire for marriage in women has risen to nearly 40% and dropped to mid 20’s (%) for men. There is ample reporting of it in all media sources, so try looking.

    You would have to be the most bitter cunt I have destroyed on line of late, you think men buy wives? You think men marry just for the sake of marriage, what a loon, men are reluctant to marry nowadays and when they do its because they think they may have found someone worth building a life with, albiet a foreign lady more and more.

    I do not believe your adopted children story at all.

    Perhaps if western women cared about everyone rather than just WOMEN then we would not ne seeing this massive social change of men refusing to be married to a selfish narcissitic western shrill.

    You are a joke and a disgusting human being who thinks every man with an asian wife bought her, LOL, you should the men reading this exactly why not to put up with or tolerate a western women.

    You just got OWNED

  • Jason Picton
  • Jason Picton
  • Jason Picton

    Men on Marriage Strike :)

  • Jason Picton

    Lets Dissect.

    “Carrie

    Oh, and the bridal shop cross from our favorite eatery has smiling couples walking out all the time, with big white bridal gowns. See, many brides we see today (in that shop, as well as at the outdoor wedding chapel at our beach, and TV shows and so on) are f-a-tfat. The grooms, not so much. I always hear that fat women can’t get a man, but I hear it only from people who don’t know wtf they’re talking about.

    ANECDOTAL RUBBISH. THE MEDIA IS EXPOSING WOMEN CANNOT FIND A MAN

    And LTR dating sites are very man-heavy, men are pursuing marriage at greater rates than women are. Those same sites get called out for faking the nu mber of female profiles just so they look like they have far, far more women on their sites than they actually do. (They don’t need to fudge the male numbers, lol.) This is why men get so pissed when they write to fifty profiles and maybe just get two responses — the others can’t respond because they are likely not real profiles.

    FALSE. WHITE MEN AND ASIAN WOMEN ARE THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER PEOPLE ON DATING SITES :)

    Men benefit from marriage; women just don’t. Love is love of course, and two people who find that are lucky, but women are far more reticent to marry today, while men are so marriage-happy that they spend an arm and a leg importing a wife (or two, or three, depending on how many divorce him).

    RUBBISH. WOMEN GAIN HEAVILY FROM MARRIAGE AND DIVORCE>

    FOREIGN WOMEN ARE WORTH IT, YOU ARE NOT :)

    So keep thinking that “YOU WIN” (lol), but since the other team refuses show up it’s hardly a “win” worth all caps.

    WE WIN

    • Carrie

      Oh, I get it now: things typed in sane-people alphabets are correct, and things in ALL CAPS are fully false, nonsensical, delusional rants. This clears up so much.

      Thank you for explaining Pictonopathy.

  • Jason Picton

    Lets show her we care:

    Carrie

    If you start your theroies with the patriarchy not being real, you’ve just negated all of the tl;dr that dribbled out afterward.

    If you go back and fix that, I promise to read the corrected version. But until then, you have lost. That is the opposite of “WE WIN”, mind you, so I am offering you a second match after you correct your entire basis that follows the faulty foundation of the patriarchy not existing.

    WE DON”T CARE WHAT YOU THINK WE ARE HERE TO REBUKE YOUR FEMINIST LIES.

    • Carrie

      You sure don’t seem to act like you don’t care.

      And which feminist lies are you trying to rebuke btw? I haven’t seen any. Frankly, feminists traditionally have much higher opinions of men than many men do.

      • MGTOW

        “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act…” Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

  • Jason Picton

    Lets school her.

    Carrie

    You seem really desperate to convince people you believe the nonsense you spout. Not only do you want to convince people you believe the shit you’re saying, but you want to sound all butch about it, lol: WE ARE RUBBING YOUR FACES IN IT, WAHHHH, MOMMY GET ME A KLEENEX!

    Telling women whose lives you’re not affecting that you are affecting their lives… there’s got to be a name for that psychiatric delusion. Pictionopathy?”

    You are the one on a MGTOW article desperate to stop men signing up to its lifestyle.

    I just rebuke feminists lies.

    • Carrie

      How am I trying to stop or even slow men down from the inevitable? MGTOWers are just men who are leftovers. I don’t wish you to be lonely or unloved. Being lonely and unloved must be a terrible way to live if your comments here are of any worth.

      I have stated over and over that men are forced to “sign up to the MGTOW lifestyle”, and not once have I asked, forced, wanted, or expected these leftovers to NOT join the lifestyle.

      Can you back up your ludicrous claim that I — even once — wanted anyone to NOT join the MGTOW lifestyle? No, you cannot, because it never happened.

      Pictionopathy might be treatable. Get thee to a medical professional. There might even still be some male doctors if you hurry.

      • MGTOW

        Leftovers make some of the best meals.

        This leftover owns his own home, free and clear, two high-end German sports cars, and a closet full of 120s Italian suits, made to measure of course. This leftover has a stable stream of residual income at an early stage in his life. He has no crotch-spawn or ex-wives sponging off of his income. Instead, he routinely politely rejects women’s advances as he casually travels the world.

        Life is good for a MGTOW.

  • Jason Picton

    Carrie is a classical Western Woman defending Feminist of the highest order, Feminism teaches men are the enemy and no criticism of women by men is allowed, and women can criticise everything EXCEPT feminism, as the ladies of WomenAgainstFeminism found out.

    Feminism is Cultural Marxism. (Lesbian Marxism)

    • Carrie

      I count five lies in your post. How many did you intend?

      • MGTOW

        Carrie, do you remember when you first began hating men?

  • Jason Picton

    Dissect time:

    Carrie

    How am I trying to stop or even slow men down from the inevitable? MGTOWers are just men who are leftovers. I don’t wish you to be lonely or unloved. Being lonely and unloved must be a terrible way to live if your comments here are of any worth.

    MGTOW ANY MAN CAN GET A WOMAN, ESPECIALLY IN THE WEST, HAVE YOU SEEN THE AVERAGE WESTERN WOMEN? I AM MARRIED SORRY, BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME

    I have stated over and over that men are forced to “sign up to the MGTOW lifestyle”, and not once have I asked, forced, wanted, or expected these leftovers to NOT join the lifestyle.

    LEFTOVERS IS THE WESTERN GALS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT MGTOW OR FOREIGN WOMEN :)

    Can you back up your ludicrous claim that I — even once — wanted anyone to NOT join the MGTOW lifestyle? No, you cannot, because it never happened.

    Pictionopathy might be treatable. Get thee to a medical professional. There might even still be some male doctors if you hurry.”

    AD HOM ATTACK :)

  • Jason Picton

    Brutal Truth Time:

    Carrie

    I count five lies in your post. How many did you intend?”

    WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK, WE JUST REBUKE YOUR LIES.

    • Carrie

      You don’t know what “rebuke” means nor what “lie” means apparently.

      Hey, this is fun — calmly responding to himsterical people on the Internet is very relaxing. I could do this every night before bed instead of chamomile tea.

      • Jason Picton

        Come on western cow bite back some more LOL

        Lonely much?

        • Carrie

          Oh, my god. Are you still trying to get me to notice you???!!! My inbox is clotted like a storm sewer drain after Katrina, allll with pathetic little begs from you to get me to notice your existence no doubt. Fine. Kneel, bow down (further than you already were), and I knight thee “noticed at last”. Now rise, and gtfo.

          I hope you don’t expect me to open all 26 of your pathetic attention-begging Disqus notices. I just did the expedient thing and opened your last one {tear running down your eye}. We all know you weren’t even worth that. But I’m nice that way, plus Spring has me in an even kinder than usual mood 😀

          Unlike you, no, I am not lonely. Unlike you, I have a life that allows me to get away from the boo-hoo-I-can’t-get-noticed-by-the-opposite-sex blog. I’d been busy living life, you dope. That’s the opposite of lonely — the opposite of you.

          Please, by all means be an obedient little slave and tell me allll about how you’re not lonely and not a loser and don’t “really” come to lonely loser blogs, so I can hurry up and delete the notice without reading. Is it any wonder first world women can’t gag you down?

          • Honey Badger Brigade

            >Are you still trying to get me to notice you???!!!

            Well I hate to be captain obvious but…

            Also, seriously, you’ve spent 6 months of your life arguing on this thread. Wow.

          • Carrie

            Hmm, interesting. So you legitimately equate my having typed a few thousand words onto a website with having “spent six months of my life” here??? WOW.

            Doll, there are many more minutes in the day, and days in the week, and weeks in the month than it takes to spend a few thousand words.

            Oh, I get it. You’re much more accustomed to the remedial reading types rather than the type who can do more in six months than respond to messages directed specifically at her.

            #NOTALLREADERSAREREMEDIAL. There, how’s that for ya?

          • Jason Picton

            LOL i love when they try to troll me hehehehe

            Not paying attention? And yet she always replies bwahhhhh

      • MGTOW

        Still MGTOW.

  • Jason Picton

    Rebuking again:

    Carrie

    You sure don’t seem to act like you don’t care.

    And which feminist lies are you trying to rebuke btw? I haven’t seen any. Frankly, feminists traditionally have much higher opinions of men than many men do.”

    I SAID WE DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. FEMINISM IS MAN HATRED, SO HOW COULD THEY HAVE HIGH OPININONS OF MEN.

    • Carrie

      Feminism is not man-hatred; patriarchy is man-hatred. I have not seen too many get those two things confused.

      • SydExE

        BEHOLD THE FRUITS OF THE EVIL PATRIARCHY: MODERNITY!

        We’re here to oppress womyn with the tyranny of things like:
        >Civilization
        >High living standards
        >Infrastructure
        >Republican forms of governance
        >Science and technology
        >Vast distribution networks of goods and services
        >Military, Police and Fire protection
        >Telecommunications

        OH, THE OPPRESSION!

        Keep talking shit about us on the internet, that says more about you women that is does us.

        • Carrie

          Patriarchy is an engendered issue, and as such you cannot attach non-engendered things to it. You might as well [laughably] say that patriarchy is the reason for sunshine and rainbows and fuzzy baby ducks. No. Those things are quite unrelated to patriarchy, just like your other non-sequitur examples.

          • SydExE

            I was being sarcastic *GASP*

            The point that I was trying to make
            was simple: It was primarily men (through industrialization) that gave
            women the freedoms they have today, not feminism; feminism just takes
            all the credit.

            It’s mostly men who build our roads and bridges,
            deliver the goods and services that consumerist women love so much, do
            the dirtiest and most thankless tasks like trash collection, manage our
            government, develop new technologies that make the lives of women
            easier… all while feminists talk shit about us on the internet we
            built and manage; you deride us as fools, incompetent, useless,
            dangerous threats just to build up your own egos and feed your victim
            complexes because women feel so insecure about themselves.

            Hint:
            If all men were to really go MGTOW and cut women off completely, you
            really don’t think we would be leaving the government, infrastructure,
            industrial complexes, financial institutions, police and fire services
            and the military in the hands of women, do you? Nope, that shit is
            coming with us; you get your own little corner of the playground to
            proves yourselves (just like you wanted, right)?

          • Carrie

            You actually said a few things of merit this time. Men have been behind many of the things you claim. Just as when I correct white supremacists on white supremacy sites, I must also correct men who tout male supremacy on one thing: the ONLY reason men/whites have been at the forefront of many inventions and ideas is because until extremely recently in human history, women, gays, and people of color were prohibited by law from getting educations, from holding property, from doing anything of merit.

            Just because men/whites/straights happen to have had a violent stranglehold on the patents for all the fun stuff in the past in NO WAY means that you’ll be permitted to keep that stranglehold.

            Judging by your comments, you have no clue what feminism stands for, yet you base constant argumentation upon these faulty foundational beliefs you have. JUST like white power twats who are firmly ensconced in their beliefs about blacks/people of color. You’re wrong, you have no desire to learn to be correct nor start building your arguments upon reality. Feminism is not what you claim, nor does it want what you claim it does.

            Why did you include that car crash photo? Don’t you think that guy who crashed his wife’s car feels bad enough?

          • SydExE

            “You actually said a few things of merit this time. Men have been behind many of the things you claim.”

            A feminist actually acknowledging that men benefit society, I’d never thought I’d see the day.

            “Just because men/whites/straights happen to have had a violent
            stranglehold on the patents for all the fun stuff in the past in NO WAY
            means that you’ll be permitted to keep that stranglehold forever.
            Playing fair isn’t fun for the ones who are forced to do it against
            their will, I know. But the rest of us want it, so you
            (white/male/straight) people have to grow consciences and let everyone
            else play too.”

            We’ve never had a “violent stranglehold” over women, it’s men who were the ones who were exposed to most of the violence over the course of our evolution, not women (which is why we’re physically stronger than women). Men were the ones who were tasked with protecting and providing for women because it was necessary for us to evolve.

            Back in the days of “the patriarchy,” men and women HAD to get married and have children because there was no state welfare like social security or nursing homes to take care of us in our old age so it was extremely necessary for us to have the family structures that we did to raise the children that would care for us in our old age, THAT’S why things were the way they were, NOT because men wanted to oppress women, but because it was necessary. (btw, it’s our welfare system that is collapsing our economy)

            Even today, a time where women have all the doors open to them, men STILL are burdened with MOST of the responsibility. We hold the most political power because men aspire to leadership more naturally than women do (women are a majority of the electorate because they have more to gain from voting than men do btw, so it’s mostly women who are putting those men in power,) we’re a VAST majority of noble prize holders and the holders of MOST of the patents as well.

            Our survival as a species is almost entirely guaranteed and men are no longer burdened with having to protect and to provide for women, so we technically don’t owe women anything anymore. Women flooding into the workforce as simply depressed our wages and we’ve allowed them to do that, despite the fact that we don’t have to.

            Just as an exsample, when a man by the name of Johnny Shanahan wanted to open a male-only barber shop in Liverpool, England, he got threats from feminist groups and and even tampons were thrown at his shop, I can’t ever envision men being so upset women wanted to open a woman-only hair salon, even the boy scouts have to except girls into their ranks these days, and there’s even a boys-only school in Washington DC that’s being vehemently opposed by women’s groups. Women seem to be EXTREMELY therated by male chauvinism/gender segregation, I wonder why?

          • Jason Picton

            If Patriarchy existed then Feminism would not :)

          • Max Wright

            I can’t believe you say you aren’t a feminist! What do you think causes patriarchy?

      • Jason Picton

        Carrie seems awfully defensive for a non-feminist LOL.

        Western women should just buy a cat.

      • MGTOW

        I’ll tell you what, we evil patriach men will just leave you all alone and go MGTOW.

        That *should* finally make you happy, but I suspect that nothing makes you happy, since you’re practicing a false religion called feminism.

      • Max Wright

        Whoa… Feminism needs to tell that to the evolutionary biologists!!

  • Jason Picton

    She getting a bit upset:

    Carrie

    Oh, I get it now: things typed in sane-people alphabets are correct, and things in ALL CAPS are fully false, nonsensical, delusional rants. This clears up so much.

    Thank you for explaining Pictionopathy.”

    SAD PERSON INDEED IS OUR CARRIE. NOBODY CARES ABOUT WHAT SHE THINKS, JUST REBUKE HER, FEMINIST’S HATE THAT.

    • Carrie

      Carrie wouldn’t know what feminists hate, as she isn’t one and doesn’t know any. The last Carrie heard, the only thing that feminists hate is when men won’t let their dates pick up the check.

      But don’t let reality stand in the way of your comical fury.

      • Jason Picton

        Sure, keep trying to troll bwaaahhhhhhh

  • Jason Picton

    LOL this means you Carrie.

    • Carrie

      “LOL, no it doesn’t LOL”. But thanks for trying.

      • Jason Picton

        Suck shit western bitches.

      • MGTOW

        Still MGTOW forever, and spreading the word to other good men.

  • Jason Picton

    Once cunts like Carrie get exposed as feminist trolls they start getting silly and just talk rubbish, lets reviewed some of this weak cowardly womans comments:

    Carrie

    Jesus, you poor, pathetic little thing :( You must get so much pity wherever you go. At least my pity for you won’t ever get lonely.

    I feel bad now that I was so rough on your earlier. Try rubbing some Preparation H all over yourself, head-to-toe, to relieve some of the pain, eh?”

    SOME AD HOM ATTACKS lol

    Carrie

    Women marry for money??? Women go to college and get good-paying jobs to avoid marriage for money, you mean. If you [somehow] think women are so hurt up for money, then you should be supportive of women having the same earning power that men do for the same jobs. And then {poof} no more need to marry for money (in your laughablywrong view).

    Go ahead, send up another clay pigeon. Yours are a mile wide and easy as hell to shoot down.

    I love the fact that you can’t see how your himsterical posts contradict each other… like how men are refusing to marry ‘western’ women ergo ‘western’ women can’t get married, yet these same women whom you try to claim can’t get married are somehow also marrying and marrying and marrying “a few men to clean out”???

    Pal, I know some people. Let me get you the help you need. Pictonopathy needs to be studied, diagnosed, and eradicated for the safety of humankind. We’ll become famous — you, for hosting the psychiatric diagnosis, and me for bringing your himsterical delusions to the forefront of modern psychiatry. They made a movie called “A Beautiful Mind”; maybe they can make one about you called “A Batshit Ranting Lunatic”? Maybe Michael Moore can play your role.”

    THE USUAL GARBAGE, FEMINIST HATE BEING REBUKED AND EXPOSED AS LYING FILTH CUNTS, WOMEN ALREADY GET PAYED THE SAME WAGE FOR THE SAME WORK, BUT WOMEN ARE STILL MATERIALISTIC, MARRY UP (HYPERGAMY). NICE HOW SHE ADMITS WOMEN USED TO MARRY FOR MONEY, STILL DO :)

    FEWER AND FEWER MEN ARE MARRY, BECAUSE OF CUNTS LIKE YOU :) THE CYCLE IS BEING BROKEN. END OF WESTERN WOMEN. AND NATURALLY SHE ENDS ON ANOTHER AD HOM ATTACK ABOUT METAL HEALTH.

    Carrie

    The only time women ever say “where have all the good men gone?” is when we are forced to watch police footage on the news about the latest father snatching custody of his child long enough to throw him off a roof out of spite for his ex.

    Don’t you wonder where the good men have gone also? Or are you in favor of family annihilators or something?

    (Se e what I did there? I sank to your level long enough to respond in a way you’d understand.)”

    SPOKEN LIKE THE MAN HATING CUNT YOU ARE, WE NEVER SEE WOMEN HURT CHILDREN, OPPPS, THATS RIGHT MOST CHILDREN STATISTICALLY DIE AT THE HANDS OF?????? YES YOU GUESSED IT MOTHERS. THE SAME MOTHERS WHO USE THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO FLEECE AND ALIENATE MEN FROM THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF CUNT BLACK HEARTS THEY HAVE :)

    THE GOOD MEN HAVE MERELY REJECTED SICK TOXIC WESTERN WOMEN.

    • Carrie

      I’m a cunt? You’d better believe it!

      Jealous much? A good grad school and great grades, and you might just qualify for being a cunt as well.

      • Jason Picton

        LOL yeah Carrie the only one who ever went to school hahahaha

        Problem is men do not give a fuck how educated you are, we want young fertile women, thats our mission.

      • MGTOW

        Where are all of the contributions throughout history of all of your “knowledgeable women”?

  • Mecca Andropolis

    They have been beating our brains out since time immemorial. They wound us so, but no one hears us weeping. It is the ultimate injustice, but it is the most commonplace story in the world. Why must they harm us so? They are c#nts, plain and simple, nothing more, nothing less. F#ck them all. If there was a way to exterminate all the women and face no consequences, there is only one thing you could call it… JUSTICE.

  • Mech Shop

    MGTOW and Red Pill are names given to something that was already happening. Its not an absolute religion but an evolving loose collection of ideas / memes. These names were added as a branding of sorts along the way. Many are about common female hypocrisies and natural actions. Women often do not like MGTOW because they think they will loose some power they have over men. This makes sense as sometimes female power is based on a hypocrisy and MGTOW exposes it, therefore suppressing and demonizing MGTOW is prudent.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/SandmanMGTOW

    Look what mass media offers: For women Cinderella and her gold digging victories over supplicant men. For men box office record breaking Furious 7 and its over the top brainless machismo. Both are complete fantasies that will lead to ruin.

    Feminist orthodoxy is about dis-empowering men as much as possible and transferring resources to women by all possible means. This is by nature injurious to boys and men. So the appearance of something like MGTOW / Red Pill was inevitable.

    Not all ideas are “MGTOW” . Was blackmail essential for marriage to evolve?
    http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/111202_blackmail.htm
    All of this has to do with adapting to modernity. A clear sign of societal collapse is getting stuck applying the same old solutions to new problems regardless of outcome. Therefore MGTOW is very good for society.

  • Christopher

    I see why the West hates the Arab world. The Arab world doesn’t have a “women” problem. Western Feminists hate that.

  • Christopher

    No Carrie!!! I do NOT agree with Feminism. In fact, I despise it greatly. It is the cause of the total destruction of not only the American Traditional Family structure, but was promulgated around the world, resulting in the breakdown of Western Family structures abroad, and even in Japan. I respect Arabic cultures because the feminist manifesto will NEVER gain ground there, and that’s why Western Powers really want to infiltrate Middle Eastern Culture, because the Western Feminist want to sully the Arab Woman and destroy a culture that has existed before there was a U.S. or an ideology called Feminism. Feminism is an ideology were Western women had a problem with their men. During the Civil Rights struggle in the U.S., the African American woman didn’t have a problem with her man. Both she and her man were simply attempting to gain Human and Civil Rights. But the Feminist movement convinced the African American woman that it wasn’t about Human/Civil Rights, but the rights of women versus men. African American Men and Women NEVER HAD A POWER STRUGGLE LIKE THAT. WE WERE TOO BUSY TRYING TO GET CIVIL/HUMAN RIGHTS AND TRYING TO SAVE OUR FAMILIES, BUT FEMINISM CAME IN JUST LIKE the CIA’s counterintelligence program to destroy our movement for civil and human rights.

  • Christopher

    This movement were men are simply tired of the present system of unearned, unjust rewards for women is not a “hate” movement. I don’t hate women. You are confused. I can imagine, just like any group, there are “fringe elements”, that go beyond. I agree, that there may be some men in this movement who may dislike or despise women. Just like not all Feminist hate men, but there are some in the Feminist Movement who hate and despise men. I always found it interesting that the most “men-hating women” in the Feminist Movement, actually emulate and look like that which they hate so much. All the “dykish and butch looking women” that look like, and act like men. Why do they look like and emulate that which they despise so much? It would seem like the most man-hating women, would be the most “WOMANLY LOOKING THING”, NOT THE MOST “MANLY LOOKING THING”!

  • Christopher

    I FIND IT VERY INTERESTING, THAT WOMEN WHO WANT MENS RESOURCES SAY THAT WE NEED TO “MAN-UP”: MEANING GET MARRIED.
    HOW CAN A WOMAN BRING HER LIPS TO SAY SUCH A THING, WHEN SHE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A MAN. DO MEN EVER SAY THAT A WOMAN NEEDS TO “WOMAN-UP”? THIS IS SIMPLY A GUILT-TRIP TO PUT ON MEN WHO REFUSE TO GET MARRIED, BUY EXPENSIVE ENGAGEMENT RINGS, AND PUT A WOMAN “FIRST” BEFORE THAT MAN PUTS HIMSELF FIRST. THESE WOMEN TRY TO ATTACK YOUR SEXUALITY BY CALLING YOU EFFEMINATE/GAY, IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE SINGLE AND NOT MARRY. WE ARE NOT GAY, WE ARE NOT EFFEMINATE. IN FACT, I ENJOY WOMEN. I JUST DON’T EVER WANT TO GET MARRIED. I HAVE A CHILD, BUT ONLY TO PASS ALONG MY DNA. IT WASN’T BECAUSE I LOVED THE WOMAN, OR I WANTED TO BE MARRIED. LOTS AND LOTS OF MEN ARE THINKING THIS WAY. IF I FEEL LIKE I WANT TO HAVE SEX, THEN I WILL CALL UP ONE OF MY WOMEN FRIENDS, WHO SHARE THE MUTUAL SEXUAL WANTING. IT’S NOT DISRESPECT. IT’S MUTUALISM. SHE’S GETTING SOMETHING OUT OF IT AS WELL AS ME. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHE’S GIVING ME FOR BEING A GOOD BOY, OR TAKING OUT THE TRASH, OR BUYING HER AN OUTFIT!

  • Christopher

    Just like what’s happening in Japan, I would encourage all men to stop having children and stop marrying these women. Can’t have a feminist if there are no female children now can we? Don’t give your sperm to sperm banks, don’t marry, don’t have children with women whom you just want to have sex with.

    • SydExE

      Except that’s not what happening in japan. Their economy is very hostile to anyone who wants to start a family.

  • MGTOW

    Hate and revenge have nothing to do with MGTOW.

    Our lives, our choices. That’s MGTOW.

  • Carrie

    Wow, someone must’ve put some sand in the MGTOW vaseline last night! Because there’s even more butthurt from this site than usual!

    I woke up to over THIRTY new Disqus notices from this article. ***Somebody*** sure does think he’s worthy of attention that in no way, shape, or form is he worthy of 😉

    Maybe I’m wrong, maybe they are from more than one butthurt(?), but since I am certainly not going to open any of these most recent begs for female attention, I cannot tell how many different people are asking to get some free communication with a woman. That’s a shame, because there were one or two non-himsterical people here who are getting painting with the same brush that the dangerously himsterical ones are.

    Enjoy your pathetic attempts at my attention. I could only fit this many onto my screen cap:(

    • Carrie

      D’oh! Me forget pic. Your stupidity is contagious!

    • SydExE

      Seems to me like you’ve become a permanent resident. You were very combative and required quite of bit of correcting, so it’s not surprising you got so many responses.

      *tips fedora*

      • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

        Time for your 5000 duh’s checkup then. A “permanent resident” would mean I have been here more recently than nearly three months. (Hint: as I have said a few times, I ONLY come here to respond to the occasional plea for my attention that various other fedoras send to my inbox. This means I am much more of a frequently invited guest to your rubber room, and not so much a resident of your virtual insane asylum.)

        Combative? Perhaps to those who don’t like to be corrected by us icky double X chromosomes. But you get a nice little pat on your clearly too-tight fedora for thinking I have been corrected here. See, when delusional bigots with delusional and bigoted views “correct” sane people by claiming delusional and bigoted things to be true, the sane people tend not to fall for it. I fully acknowledge that this place is identical in fashion to Stormfront plus some paranoid Illuminati conspiracy site, except instead of babbling himsterically against Blacks and Lizard People, MGTOWs tend to focus their himsterical babbling on women and non-reality.

        Go Google Fedora Memes. I just did. But I couldn’t decide which to include in this response.

        • SydExE

          The whole world is an insane asylum that’s going to hell in a hand basket, not just this site. Also, I don’t what gives you the impression that I think you’re “icky” because you’re a women, I don’t (male feminists disgust me just as much if not more.) I’m not a fedora pro just because I dislike feminism, it’s a cancerous ideology that has done tremendous harm to our society, so opposing it makes me the rational one.

          There wasn’t much to correct you on since most of your comments were ad hominem attacks, but that’s to be expected from feminists, but your entire ideology is a pipe dream that is not at all based in reality.

          IDK how Lizard People came into the discussion, but I’m very well aware of what fedora memes are and have seen just about all of them. Thanks for the advice, though.

          *nods respectfully*

          • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

            I am not a feminist; I say this more often than need ever be said. And although you do point out that males who seek to remove the long-institutionalized harmful treatment of women offend you just as much as the females who wish to end gender bigotry and all that it entails, you should really one day (maybe after University) realize that having the government and society lift its jackboot off the throats of women and girls everywhere is ***not*** the same as a cancerous ideology.

            And I didn’t think this would need explaining too, but [belief in] Lizard People is akin to the laughable belief that literally ANYTHING in society is remotely “gynocentric” or “misandric”. A good post-high school education will one day make this obvious to you or anyone else. At least you got that Stormfront was the racial equivalent to the gender equivalence of this site (or truly, any “MGTOW” site).

            I have the notion that my attention will lead to your continual responses of “nuh-unh”, so have a great evening doing all the legally allowable things you might enjoy. I’m going to go offline until the morrow.

          • SydExE

            Yes, you are a feminist, why deny it?

            Going to University is out of reach for someone who had the terrible misfortune of being born in a single mother “family” and who had the added misfortune of going to to shitty public schools and who now lives in poverty as a consequence, thanks for your feign concern, though (not really.) The higher education bubble has already popped since there are no jobs once people graduate as the economy continues to spiral into the doldrums, oh well.

            Yes, society is very anti-male by simply being so consumerist, politically correct and anti-meritocratic… not an environment men will thrive in.

            I’m pro traditionalism, MGTOW is anti-traditionalism… so I’m not keen on supporting it. I wish for gender relations to IMPROVE, not to be destroyed by ideologues like MGTOWers or feminist degenerates… a house divided against itself cannot stand, after all.

            So, actually, you’re both part of the problem.

            *tips fedora*

        • Max Wright

          You’ve been corrected at least three times:

          The Pay gap is mostly lie. If it exists at all its because of job performance, not “systemic discrimination.”

          Mothers kill their children more often than fathers (71% to 29%)

          There is a slew of data and articles out there about young men not getting married.

          There has also been plenty of refuting you assertions that men here hate women. I don’t think most men who feel this way hate women. They are just being smart.

      • Lorenzo Benito

        Don’t feed the troll, people! If you feed it, it will reproduce!

  • Mech Shop

    If you look at the echo chamber feminist site now.org, there is no reference to Mgtow.
    http://alturl.com/a8hz7
    Obviously they must be well aware of Mgtow’s existence.

  • Shortwave13

    Question is there a MIGTOW for Lesbians?

    • Andrejovich Dietrich

      its called feminism

  • Christian Malone

    women : – fascist, toxic,permalying, underdeveloped parasites

    #killallwomen

    Understanding The Worlds Deadliest Parasite: Women

    https://youtu.be/eUJEENVOrR4

  • Christopher Russell

    You say that “There’s (sic) only 4 things a woman can provide a man.”, a home, sex, companionship, and children. What about love?

    • Lorenzo Benito

      That would go under companionship, but it’s a moot point, since the majority of women are incapable of providing it. It’s not that they’re bad people, it’s just that they aren’t built that way; they can no more love a man than they can regrow a severed limb.

      • Christopher Russell

        Evolution designed women to love men.

        It’s female human nature.

        Any woman found “incapable of providing” love is a pathological case, and therefore not illustrative of the nature of the population as a whole.

  • http://www.GamesByRich.com Rich Hutnik

    It is possible to reframe MGTOW a bit for men to just go off, stop worrying about dating, and all this gender role nonsense, and find their own way and be men who can stand on their own and do what they need to, and not be dependent on having a dating relationship? At the core of what would make it work, isn’t really category of men as a group going their own way, but individual men, on their own, each deciding to go on their own, make their lives what the need, and put an end to all this gender role non-sense? In show, grow up and be men and not manchilds. Anyhow, maybe I miss something here, but does MGTOW just have to be about gender roles and so on, and can’t it be about personal liberation? In this last regard, gender wouldn’t even be an issue.

  • Darknut

    Saying “women aren’t worth your time” is absolutely clearly textbook misogyny.

    What if you said, “Black people aren’t worth my time…” Would you be surprised if anyone thought that was racist? Would ANYONE in their right mind not think that’s a racist thing to say?

    Why are women… ALL WOMEN “worth your time” or not? Aren’t they all different from one another and in various ways “worth your time” or not as much as men are? It makes no sense at all unless you just deep down have a problem with women… which is the definition of misogyny. Just say you hate women, and own it.

    • SydExE

      So was it sexist when women started to say that women need men like a fish needs a bicycle? If if not, what makes its sexist when men start to say something smiler?

    • Tim

      So its wrong to say something isnt worth the danger? misogyny is an IRRATIONAL UNFOUNDED HATRED OF WOMEN YOU DUMB ASS

      A valid reason invalidates that

    • Max Wright

      THe implied context is a romantic relationship. He’s not supposed to be interested in a romantic relationship with black people, that would be weird. He’s not saying that women in the workplace have no value. He’s saying for purposes of a romantic relationship, its not worth it.

  • GG Selon

    I think really the solution is to find yourself and then pick the needle out of the haystack and hang on. Good women are out there who will treat you well and some of us are feminists. I’m a feminist and I have a very nice relationship with a man. We love each other and treat each other well, with respect. Maybe when you’re dating it’s better to forget gender in your relationship for a while and just remember you’re both human beings looking to share a life experience together.

  • anyhowtown prufrock

    This is a better idea of MGTOW than those I have seen on YouTube etc. I prefer the response of raised-eyebrowed-shrug when women are toxic. Returning spite and malice is not my idea of fun. I do not like watching videos where men suggest that, if a woman hits you then you can hit her back. I believe men should walk away because we are better than the violent response would suggest. No amount of anger, and no volumes of self-serving videos of self-justification can ever out-perform the quiet dignity of polite chivalric stoicism in the eye of the storm.

    • FrankNizzo

      Actually watch cunts get what they deserve brings great joy to my heart. Women in general have a huge karmic debt that is in need of repayment so every time I read about a woman get massively beaten/lit on fire/murdered/raped, it brings tears of massive schadenfreude to my heart :)

  • https://www.pinterest.com/bconservative/ Carrie

    Ugh. Signed on to see another psychotic break from this site’s mental midget minions.
    Hint: school’s out — so I have a house full of happy, needy offspring who merit more attention than you all do. Please don’t take it personally.
    It’s not like anyone from this site would have wised up and started making enough sense to actually merit my opening any of your messages… (Hey, at least I opened the one about tennis!)

    • http://www.genderratic.net Jim Doyle

      “Hint: school’s out — so I have a house full of happy, needy offspring who merit more attention than you all do. Please don’t take it personally.”

      It’s quite troubling that anyone as abusive as you is allowed anywhere near children.

  • Piggy saBinring

    I understand that a lot of guys have issues with women, and sometimes it’s justified. But on the flip side, a lot of women have issues with men, and sometimes it’s justified too. What I find particularly divisive about the whole thing, is that neither party usually wants to see the other as anything other than an homogenous entity with a hive mind. Everyone has their own personal story; if we actually discussed our reasoning without judgement or excessive emotionality, we may find some common ground at the end of the day. At the very least, it might encourage some helpful / illuminating dialogue.
    I for one am immensely glad I don’t live in the US… your Justice system is totally fucked up (not to mention other things I realised visiting there too). Also, kudos to the author for acknowledging the “revenge factor” that seems to underlie at least some of MGTOW.

    • SydExE

      It seems that everyone is at each others necks these days. I understand that some men my not be the best fathers/husbands (my father was a complete loser who treated me and my mother like shit (my mother in turn treated me like shit to get back at him)) and that an abusive husband is a betrayal of a woman’s trust, but feminists are quick to generalize (and women are no saints either.)

      My mother and father went through fifteen years of divorce hell and my family was destroyed all while lawyers were raking in the shekels

      There are a lot of people who stand to benefit from the on going culture war: Lawyers, professional activists, politicians, media, business and so on.

      I live in the U.S. and it SUCKS here, I hate it so much. Nobody can be trusted, the political system sucks, the “education” system sucks, our economy sucks, our roads and bridges are falling apart and nobody seems to care, our legal system is a huge drag net that wants as many people involved in it as possible, forty years of feminism has destroyed the family… I could go on. Be VERY glad you do not live here.

      I think of all the kids in our failing schools being dosed with Ritalin and brainwashed with all that American exceptionalism nonsense, being told that America is a free country, or that it’s a land of opportunity where anyone can make it if they work hard enough. They’re in for a rude awakening when they enter the real world.

      feelsbadman.jpg

  • Michael-Ann

    It is so nice to have a happy relationship with someone I love and who loves me. You people seem to have endless drama and the bitterness that goes along with it in your lives.

    • Lorenzo Benito

      Well, the important thing is that you have found an inexpensive way to feel superior to other people.

      • Kyla

        Cultivating a life of less drama and over-reaction/taking things personally is a superior way to live. Don’t associate with people who hook you into drama. If you are entering a relationship, know your own personal baggage, don’t expect anyone to change for you and know what you are getting into. The responsibility is on each person to choose wisely and be emotionally mature.

  • Roninfor

    <❶❷❸.%@^@^@^!^!^!^!^.. ??????????+honeybadgerbrigade+.Part-time working I Saw at the draft which said $19958@mk9 < Read more info here='' ……..''

    <☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯✿✿☯

    30

  • Jeffrey Din

    As a lvl 1 MGTOW, I date women and don’t live with them especially past 7 years where it becomes a Commonlaw Marriage. I still love women but I sure wish that laws were different. You can thank the government agenda of depopulation for all this feminism. They stack everything against men to make having a family with a woman unattractive by taking everything from men. Guys, if you want to reproduce, adopt or if you want your own genetics get a surrogate. It’ll cost you $60K to $100K but it’ll save you the heartache and financial bankruptcy of a divorce and child support. God put women on earth to support us but government run by the illuminati and Federal Reserve banks have turned them against us with all this feminism and “rape culture” hoopla.

  • Rob White

    Let me explain in simple terms, the mentality, the reasons behind mgtow. If there was a “women going there own way” (and there might be, I don’t know), they would be lauded as strong women who stand up for themselves. They would be “feminist heroes” and considered role models. Mgtow’s are ridiculed and belittled with a viciousness that is quite alarming. That reaction to mgtow’s explains it’s very existence.

  • MikeTO

    MGTOW.com is nothing but toxic. I have been to goingyourownway.com too. I can’t really say anything good for them. All the whining like the video is too long you posted to attack against me and when I reply with no response. These men are so miserable they don’t just hate women they make men too. And the assholes at mgtow.com called me a liar when I pointed out I was banned when they claimed that I could come back to the site.
    These guys won’t hold any personal responsibility. If false rape charges are so dangerous why is it people like Keymaster on mgtow.com having casual sex with women.

    Marriage isn’t the problem obviously it’s divorce. Studies have shown when women have casual sex she is more likely to divorice. MGTOW refused to see the studies or stay silient.
    I have been going my own way for 30 years but I didn’t have anyone to talk to or bitch about women. I challenge the honeybadgers to see the soltuions of the problems not blaming it all on women. Both genders are to blame and more and more now women are paying child support and alimony. But does that stop women who make more money from marrying? NO. Women who make more money still marry men that make less unless they want to be alone.
    Let’s stop pointing fingers and come with solutions. Men used to enjoy solving problems but now all they do is bitch and whine on a daily basis.

    • coptic777

      False rape allegations are dangerous when former prosecutors like Craig Silverman who won awards for putting away actual rapist is saying its a problem & that any honest DA will tell you the same thing. I asked my cousin about this who is LAPD & he agreed he has seen a lot of rape claims go up in smoke & he was not talking about the ones with no evidence he spoke about the many he saw where the evidence favored the man accused. When groups like the Innocence Project is also saying so many cases they have end up getting men out of prison for rapes they did not commit due to false allegations & they quietly spoke about this I am going with the former DA & the Innocence project over your opinion sorry:

      Craig Silverman former Colorado DA:

      “According to former Colorado prosecutor Craig Silverman, “For 16 years, I was a kick-ass prosecutor who made most of my reputation vigorously prosecuting rapists. … I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department. … A command officer in the Denver Police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45%.”

      http://web.archive.org/web/20050404230831/http://www.thedenverchannel.com/kobebryanttrial/2812198/detail.html

    • coptic777

      Oh also stop preaching to men about not taking responsibility when women are notorious for this. I mean its only women who marched & protested for rights to opt out of parenthood even AFTER they give birth no questions asked no legal obligation. Men have never protested for such rights only women. Now women even do not have to actually abandon the child at a public institution anymore but they are now giving women “baby drop boxes”. Why? Well women complained that when they went to abandon the child they were offended by all the questions they would get just in case the child needs immediate medical attention!!! When some repub senator merely said women should not be allowed to dump children since men had to take responsibility women PROTESTED & DEMANDED HE RESIGN! They called it part of “The war on women”??? Its laughable for you to claim MGTOW take no responsibility when we see women having twice as many multiple baby daddys than men with multiple baby mamas, get free housing, food & medical for each bastard child they produce they can not afford & men get jail while women have all the reproductive rights & around 2 dozen birth control options yet the numbers & incentives show men as a group are being much more responsible. Your have no credibility sorry…

      http://wric.com/2016/05/04/first-baby-drop-off-box-for-unwanted-newborns-installed-in-indiana/

  • Ikhwan Arif

    This article is well articulated and thorough which unfortunately makes it very long. I agree with the ither commentors, mgtow isn’t about revenge.

    If I could borrow a quote fromBuddhist scholar Dr Suzuki, “Nirvana is like everyday life, only with 2 feet of the ground.” Mgtow has the same effect, it feels like suddenly a great burden has been lifted from your entire mind and body. Before you’ve been living your life with iron shackles only to realize that it was never there.

    That is mgtow.

  • MinakotoYukisato

    Well, at least you aren’t demonizing or generalizing anyone. I can respect your way of life as long as you respect other people’s. You’re definitely one of the more rational minded MGTOW I’ve seen. While I’m not MGTOW, I can see where you’re coming from.My problem is with extremists that generalize and demonize all women and sound no different than feminists. I hope whatever you have going on in your life goes well.

  • Don Frampton

    There is no reason to ever have a living together relationship with a woman, period!

    Men and Women are completely capable of taking care of themselves all alone.

    I cook; real cooking, not box in a microwave. I clean my home, bleach, scrub tub, sweep, mop, vacuum.

    I iron my own clothes, take care of my laundry. Sew any clothing that needs fixing. Clean my own dishes.

    I get to watch what I want on tv. If I want to go online, I don’t have to deal with someone looking over my shoulder asking me what I am doing. Video games? Sure, some. My life.

    I can go out and play basketball when I want after work. Go to a game. Go bowling, play golf.

    I can hang out with friends and not have to answer to a woman about how I am spending my time.

    So why would I want to give this up? For what? A Nagging Boss. I already have a boss at my job. Great thing about my boss. He pays me to work and doesn’t nag me. That’s the only boss I will put up with.